#NBARank Recap: Kevin Durant second, Westbrook 9th

Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images

Another thing, another runner-up finish for Kevin Durant behind LeBron James.

Still, No. 2 isn’t all bad.

KD finished second in ESPN’s #NBARank project where the top 500 NBA players are scored on a scale of 0-to-10 by a huge panel of voters. It’s obviously not surprising, especially not after the last 12 months LeBron has put together. He’s gone from NBA pariah to the unquestioned most dominant player in the world. Honestly, the list really started at No. 2.

And the fact Durant has established himself there is impressive in its own right. To be ranked that high you can’t just be a scorer. You’ve got to be a player that’s seen as a contributor in all facets. That’s where Durant has taken his game. Good rebounder, a good creator, a good defender and a great scorer.

Last season Durant finished ranked sixth with a 9.62 average. This season his average is 9.70.

Oklahoma City had another top 10 player as Russell Westbrook checked in ninth, up from 15 in 2011. James Harden finished 26th and Serge Ibaka 41st.

Here’s a recap of how the whole team came out:

NR: Andy Rautins | Avg: N/A | 2011 rank: 471

496: Hollis Thompson | Avg: 1.53 | 2011 rank: NR

465: DeAndre Liggins | Avg: 2.02 | 2011 rank: 479

443: Hasheem Thabeet | Avg: 2.23 | 2011 rank: 376

426: Daniel Orton: | Avg: 2.36 | 2011 rank: 431

390: Cole Aldrich | Avg: 2.62 | 2011 rank: 425

383: Lazar Hayward | Avg: 2.67 | 2011 rank: 409

343: Reggie Jackson | Avg: 2.93 | 2011 rank: 422

306: Perry Jones III | Avg: 3.27 | 2011 rank: NR

286: Daequan Cook | Avg: 3.44 | 2011 rank: 275

190: Eric Maynor | Avg: 4.49 | 2011 rank: 157

120: Kendrick Perkins | Avg: 5.15 | 2011 rank: 95

117: Thabo Sefolosha | Avg: 5.16 | 2011 rank: 134

100: Nick Collison | Avg: 5.48 | 2011 rank: 115

41: Serge Ibaka | Avg: 6.93 | 2011 rank: 56

26: James Harden | Avg: 7.70 | 2011 rank: 58

9: Russell Westbrook | Avg: 8.76 | 2011 rank: 15

2: Kevin Durant | Avg: 9.70 | 2011 rank: 6

Biggest Riser: Reggie Jackson, who went up 79 spots. Second biggest was Cole Aldrich, who climbed 35 spots.

Biggest Faller: Hasheem Thabeet, who fell 67 spots. Only three other Thunder players fell actually: Eric Maynor (33 spots), Perk (25 spots) and Daequan Cook (11 spots).

Average Thunder Score: 4.49

Average Thunder Rank: 243.70

A Few Notes: The way I approached the voting was by setting a standard for a zero and a 10. LeBron’s a 10. Eddy Curry’s a zero. I gave three 10s: LeBron, KD and Dwight Howard. I gave six 9s: Westbrook, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Kevin Love, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. For reference, I gave both Serge Ibaka and James Harden an eight and Nick Collison an 11.

A Few Facts: The Thunder were one of three teams with two players in the top 10… the most any team had in the top 100 was five, which OKC tied with multiple teams on… In terms of a “Big Three” the Thunder’s averaged a 12.3 ranking, while the Heat’s a 9.0 and the Lakers an 8.6… the Thunder were one of two teams (Lakers) with four players in the top 50… the Lakers top four averaged an 11.2, OKC’s a 19.5.

supreme35
2012-09-27 22:00:31
 @kennygee90 Same... why are you a Lakers fan? lol
DennisBerry
2012-09-27 21:25:32
Does anyone have the link to that Russell Westbrook high school highlights video
novelisticbee0
2012-09-27 21:47:13
 @DennisBerry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haq_JS0YFXk   This the one?
DennisBerry
2012-09-27 21:55:38
 @novelisticbee0 Thanks. I guess that's it. I could have sworn BallisLife made an all high school one of him
Watson
2012-09-27 12:27:59
This shows how indicative ranking individual players is when comparing actual teams. The lakers have 4 players at 4-19, and I'm still not scared of them in the slightest......(okay maybe just a little.)
Watson
2012-09-27 12:29:15
Can't wait to see James crack the top 15 though. I just hope he's still in a Thunder uniform when that happens.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 12:33:19
prove them wrong Hollis!
Thunder Tim
2012-09-27 12:41:07
Nick Collison got an 11 out of 10? I love the guy and all, but c'mon...
holeydonut
2012-09-27 12:46:51
I think it's time for Collison to shave the absolute value stache.  Although now it'll be called the "what Royce ranked him on a scale of 10" stache
ATH
2012-09-27 12:47:49
That's a good top nine, but Chris Paul is still a 10 to me. Durant/Howard/Paul/healthy Wade is a pretty distinct non-Bron teir. Deficiencies in defense and/or efficiency separate the next group of four guys.
Thunder S
2012-09-27 12:57:34
I wish the NBA had a thing like the NFL Top 100, where the peers vote on it.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:11:57
 @Thunder S Kobe would be #1 and Tmac would be in the top 10
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:13:00
Westbrook should be 10..I'd put Dirk Nowitzki before him..Rose was 8 in his MVP year then 5th after an injury riddled year..i dont get it...I'd take Kobe over CP3 too..Kobe always leads his team to a better record and outplays cp3 most of the time..I'd actually put westbrook over Rose cause of injuries.. Lebron Durant  Howard Kobe  Cp3 Dirk Nowitzki Wade Kevin Love Westbrook  Rose D-will Between D-will, Rose and Westbrook..Williams is the better player than both but had a bad year so he'd be right under top 10
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:15:53
 @kennygee90 Rose is living off that one MVP season. There's no way he should be 5th. Dirk's probably better than what he got ranked in #NBA Rank, but he had a down year too. Disagree completely with Kobe - the only time he's able to will the team to victory is when the refs give him ~30 free throws in a night and he makes 29 of them. And regarding D-will... when was the last time he had a good year? Because at least since he's been on the Nets he's been less than elite.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:16:25
 @kennygee90 the only time he's able to will the team to victory, anymore. Obviously that's not how it used to be.
diddoff
2012-09-27 13:17:45
RealGM: Thunder Center Depth Chart: Kendrick Perkins, Daniel Orton, Hasheem Thabeet, Cole Aldrich   Am I missing something here or are they just not following the team close enough?
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:18:48
 @kennygee90 We'll see i think Williams thrived in Sloans system in Utah. He's been bad for a year and half to 2 years now. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:18:50
 @ou_sas Just be quiet about Kobe...you seem like you barely watched him last year unless he played against a better team in OKC so you probably have no idea of how good he played..Yea D-will hasn't played that great since he became a net but his had scrubs for teammates..Put westbrook in the same situation and the team wont win more games than D-will
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:20:14
 @OBoymuzik More like his had d-league talent around him..He was scary good in Utah and I can tell you by watching him play in the playoffs against the lakers his not a system player, he just had the worst teammates you could ask for
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:20:19
 @kennygee90  @ou_sas Kobe is no longer Top 10.  I'd put Rose, Westbrook, and Williams all ahead of him.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:20:24
 @kennygee90 But he'll put up better numbers than D-Will. Besides, D-Will's shooting has been like crap.   And hey, if you're going to give misinformed opinions about the Thunder, I'll say what I like about Kobe.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:20:44
 @kennygee90  @OBoymuzik Talent doesn't affect shooting percentage that much.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:21:21
 @ou_sas  @OBoymuzik tell that to the player who gets double and triple teamed every game..
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:21:58
 @kennygee90  @OBoymuzik Okay, I'll let KD know you said that.
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:22:19
 @kennygee90  Nobody other than scott brooks double or triple teams a good passer....
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:22:22
 @justin_mia  @ou_sas And you think Westbrook and williams would've done a better job than Kobe last year?? he led his team to 3rd place in the west..
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:22:31
 @kennygee90  @ou_sas i haven't watched much of the nets. but when i have Williams hasn't been getting triple teamed. He's just been shooting alot. 
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:22:32
 @kennygee90  @ou_sas Career low eFG% yet 2nd highest USG of his career.  One of the big things that could derail the Lakers is if Kobe continues to jack up shots at the rate he has been the last two seasons.
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:23:15
 @OBoymuzik  Dwil looked slow, lost, and worthless during the olympics.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:23:27
 @diddoff Racism 
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:23:53
 @kennygee90  @ou_sas During the regular season Bynum was better than him, and Gasol was close.  Kobe shot worse than Westbrook yet somehow jacked up more shots.  He can't play defense that well anymore. So yes, I think both are better.
Crow
2012-09-27 13:24:08
 @diddoff Orton had the better per game stats last season. I don't know if they put much effort into it. Orton might be the 1st backup at some point but it seems like Aldrich will get the first shot, after Collison, who they didn't want to list twice.
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:24:47
 @justin_mia  There is a reason when I'm playing a pickup game and take a terrible and stupid jumper i say "KOBE!" as I'm releasing.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:24:49
 @OBoymuzik  @ou_sas i think d-will just didnt play with alot of heart cause he was in a lose lose situation..I think he'll go back to his old self this year
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:24:59
 @kennygee90  @justin_mia I'm just arguing against your positioning of Kobe as 4th. That's all. I'm not going to say how Russ or D-Will would have done in that position, because the team would have played a completely different game.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:25:31
 @justin_mia  @kennygee90  @ou_sas Kobe's can make impossible, amazing shots, but the problem is after he makes one he decided to take 5 more after. He shoots his team in and out of games alot. 
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:25:43
 @kennygee90  Sounds like a legit reason to give him 100 mil.  
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:25:54
 @justin_mia  @kennygee90  @ou_sas Kobe can make impossible, amazing shots, but the problem is after he makes one he decides to take 5 more after. He shoots his team in and out of games alot. 
Crow
2012-09-27 13:26:11
If Westbrook really is the 9th best player in the league, then they should have a pretty good chance of winning the title. If he is not, then the chance will be much lower.
diddoff
2012-09-27 13:26:12
 @Crow Orton might be the 1st backup? What about Thabeet with his guaranteed deal?
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:26:20
 @cemitten  @kennygee90 #Potential
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:26:49
 @ou_sas  @kennygee90 "PORTLAND LOGIC"
SoonerSpens
2012-09-27 13:27:06
 @diddoff  @Crow Lead gum routine guy.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:27:17
 @cemitten  @kennygee90 Oh, that's an even better one! +100 likes on that!
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:28:03
 @Crow Considering he was on the team that was in the finals I think your first statement has been proven. ;)
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:28:03
 @cemitten  @ou_sas  @kennygee90 then i hope you're banking on Boozer having a big year in Chicago this year. because he just needed time to get adjusted to the system, he'll be his old self this year.     LOL
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:28:09
 @justin_mia  @ou_sas HAVE YOU GUYS WATCHED ANY LAKERS GAMES?? BYNUM BETTER THAN KOBE?? Kobe was the reason we were in 3rd place..He carried this team cause we had a new offence new system..Bynum played good but he was a head case..Kobe can't play defense? No guard in the league put up more than 17 points against him ALL SEASON...Kobe was our only ball handler who could create a shot and also make plays for others hence why he was overused
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:30:04
 @OBoymuzik  @justin_mia  @ou_sas True he does shoot alot but he had the greenlight cause we basically had no offensive system ..But thats his greatness..He wins more than loses..If we had another player who could create his own shot and a ball handler things would've been different..We overused him...
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:30:19
Yes Bynum was better than Kobe.  As usual Kobe was jacking up shots at the expense of Bynum and Gasol shot attempts.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:31:21
 @OBoymuzik  @cemitten  @ou_sas Boozer is just a bum..Gasol used to dominate him like crazy..His just a talented undersized powerfoward. who disappears alot in games
Crow
2012-09-27 13:31:37
 @Thunder S the players do vote on some stuff for annual SI article or series.
cemitten
2012-09-27 13:31:50
 @kennygee90  Man I'd really like to see proof that no one scored more than 17 on Kobe.  Harden averaged 16 per game against the lakers in the playoffs. Russ averaged 25.  Based on that I will guess that stat is just wrong.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:32:54
 @cemitten  @kennygee90 2 guard position is very weak. thats how that stat is made possible.    would like to see the biggest # a 2 guard put up on thabo   oh yeah Monta Ellis 48...nvm lol
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:32:58
 @cemitten In the regular season look it up..
Crow
2012-09-27 13:33:16
 @cemitten I don't think so actually, given the way he played in 3 or 4 of the games.
SoonerSpens
2012-09-27 13:33:31
 @cemitten  @kennygee90 Kennygee = Jim Traber? #madeupstats
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:34:20
 @SoonerSpens  @diddoff  @Crow I honestly think Thabeet has a small chance at backup C to start the season. Cole is the favorite. Orton has no chance
Crow
2012-09-27 13:34:30
 @diddoff This might an instance of true, fair, open competition for a job. Probably not fully that but it could happen.   Haven't seen much of that.
Crow
2012-09-27 13:35:22
 @OBoymuzik  @SoonerSpens  @diddoff I don't really know Orton but I am not willing to write him completely off.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 13:35:50
 @kennygee90  @ou_sasKobe is very good...at chucking up contested shots.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:36:27
 @SoonerSpens  @cemitten  @kennygee90 it's not a made up stat, it's just weak because lots of time players guard positions other than theirs. So kobe guarding any fast PG while fisher was there didn't count. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:36:39
 @justin_mia Bynum took the most shots his ever taken in his career..Here's the problem with bynum since you dont get it..His a good post up player, but he has problem dealing with double teams and turns the ball over..The lakers didnt have a pg who could pass the ball on top of the defence when teams fronted him ( OKC), usually it was gasol who did it..And he usually wasted the clock trying to get post position that when he gets doubled then throws it out, theres less than 5 seconds on the shot clock , then it ends up as a hero ball for kobe..
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 13:37:58
 @justin_mia  @Thunder S Duncan would probably be there too.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 13:39:42
 @kennygee90  Kobe was certainly the reason you were in third place. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:40:45
 @OBoymuzik  @SoonerSpens  @cemitten Harden has problems when Kobe guards him, Wade had the same problem last year
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:42:45
 @kennygee90 Bynum's USG was lower than the year before.  He's an elite post player who didn't get opportunity because Kobe jacked up shots.  
justin_mia
2012-09-27 13:43:19
 @kennygee90 His playoff USG I should say.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:44:11
 @Jooseppi Well now we have nash, so Kobe will play the true shooting guard role..cutting, offball screens, isos will all be on display cause he wont have to create shots for others, just score which is something he does best..and dont forget the lakers had no bench last year
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:46:01
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi we all agree the lakers will be tough if that happens. But we've never seen that team play, so we don't know if it will actually happen. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:46:02
 @justin_mia Thats cause Scott Brooks was smart and realized that all he had to do is front the post and there was no one who could pass on top of the defence in the 4th quarter...Try that with Howard this year and Nash passing the ball and see how well that works
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:47:22
 @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi I agree we dont know how well they'll play but you can still imagine how they'll play when you look at their skill sets and how they'll mesh together
ou_sas
2012-09-27 13:47:50
 @kennygee90  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi Yes, you're right. I can imagine. *looks at Kobe*
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 13:48:22
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi I don't know how well Perry Jones will play but i can imagine how he'll play when you look at his skill set. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:51:30
 @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi never mind, i'll just quit this topic cause you guys get all sarcastic and can't have a decent conversation about a team that you'll have to play in the finals..Its seriously not that hard to know how they'll play cause all the players have different skill sets that complement each other ala celtics in 08
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:51:53
 @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi *have to play to get to the finals*
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 13:53:02
 @kennygee90  I guarantee you the Thunder will not play the Lakers in the NBA finals. 
Arent
2012-09-27 13:53:13
Yeah he should have played like the way Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Love played in last years Finals.
BallSoHarden
2012-09-27 13:54:32
 @Crow Based on this statemenet, the Lakers should have a pretty pretty good chance of winning the title.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 13:56:26
 @Jooseppi Just seems like you guys are so scared to think about the Lakers being at their best that you rather talk them down as if their some crap team
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 13:57:44
 @kennygee90 If you don't want to see jokes here and there, you are probably at the wrong blog. 
ILikePancakes
2012-09-27 13:58:36
 @diddoff I don't see anything wrong.
Keith00
2012-09-27 13:59:31
 @kennygee90  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi There is a problem though in that we have no reference point for many meshing pieces. Howard was a load in the post and teams could never collapse for fear of all the shooters in Orlando - LA really only has Nash/crappy backup PG as a consistent shooter. Kobe has never truly played off the ball. It's one thing to say it, it's another to do it. We don't know if he'll be fine there, or if he'll start dominating the ball and marginalizing Nash-Pau-Dwight (exactly like he has Pau-Bynum for the last few years).   Nash is Nash, we know he'll be a fantastic shooter and will see the floor, but he's also 38. We don't know how he'll hold up. Moreover, if he doesn't have the ball as much, he essentially becomes a "better Derek Fisher," which is fine, but not really difference-making. Pau is incredibly important to the offense, but is only going to become more marginalized with Dwight suddenly becoming the guaranteed second option.   If you look at the Lakers in a vacuum, they have 4 great players. But once you accept that age will eventually take it's toll (Kobe and Nash especially are going to fade sooner than later), Dwight is returning from a serious injury, and Pau still can't play his natural position, the mesh isn't as easy. You say all the players skills compliment each other, but that's not really true. Nash and Dwight are great partners. Kobe and Pau are great partners. Pau and Dwight tend to get in each other's way. Kobe and Nash tend to get in each other's way. Kobe and Dwight are going to create friction in who gets the ball. Nash and Pau are going to blend at the expense of their skills. I'm sure they'll figure something out and still be an elite team, but I think it would be imprudent to presume their greatness will be as simple as "These 4 guys have had great careers so together they will be even better." It wouldn't be the first time a team was less than the sum of it's parts.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:00:22
 @Jooseppi nah im cool with it, I just thought people would say something more than the Jokes, but its aait..I like this blog thats why i try to avoid laker comments nowadays..someone saying a ludicrous comment about Kobe is what started this
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:00:43
 @Keith00  @kennygee90  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi It's also bad when Pau's probably the one guy you don't have injury concerns about out of the 4 of them.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:01:46
 @ou_sas  @Keith00  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi none of them have missed more than 17 games combined in the last 3 seasons...
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:01:56
 @crow May want to check this out: http://jobs.espncareers.com/bristol/production-%EF%B9%A0-programming/jobid2668774-associate-director-statistics-%E2%80%93-product-development-jobs
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:04:49
 @Arent Anyone else a little ticked at Rose being 5th? Even discounting the injury, he wasn't all that different than previous years (or Russell Westbrook). His team success is still largely built on Thibideau's defense, and they were just as good in the regular season without him.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:07:47
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi Back surgery's not a walk in the park to come back from, so I wouldn't assume anything there. Kobe's knees have been doctored how many times? I mean, he was fantastic last year after that german procedure, but how many times has it seems like he's lost a step in the playoffs (especially v. Dallas in 2011)? I mean, admit it, he has a tremendous amount of mileage on his knees. And Nash is 38, at which point injury concerns have to creep in for anyone who's playing serious minutes. Sure they've been healthy lately, but there is a lurking problem there that is just waiting.   The other thing is that one injury usually makes one more susceptible to subsequent injuries (see Oden, Greg). 
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:09:21
 @Keith00  @Arent Yes. Very yes.
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:09:31
 @kennygee90  @ou_sas  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi Dwight is recovering from a serious back injury and his entire game is predicated on athleticism. Forgive me if his iron man track record BEFORE his injury doesn't sway me.   Kobe plays hurt, but he's not nearly as effective when hurt. And even if he doesn't miss games, he's been playing hurt plenty already.   Nash is 38. He already can't defend anybody. Even if he doesn't miss time, he's half a step away (that is going to happen any time now) from not being able to get where he wants on the floor at all anymore.   Pau is a good player playing out of position. He's always been more effective at the 5, but now will see zero time there since Dwight plays so much. As well, he's getting older and less assertive. With Kobe and Nash doing ALL the ballhandling and Dwight taking up all the post, he's like to get the ball even less.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:10:29
 @Keith00  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi Thats a really great post..Kobe has already said that he'll let nash handle most of the ball handling duties..We've also seen Kobe play alot of times off the ball and his amazing at it, the lakers just didnt have any other ball handler to create a shot for himself and others hence why he had the ball in his hands alot..Nash can get Kobe the ball in his sweet spots and make the game easier for him..Nash and pau is a match made in heaven.Pau can finish in the hoop and hit the 17ft jumper and is a great passer..Gasol and Howard actually complement each other cause of Howard's athleticism.. unlike bynum, howard can play at power foward, but not as a shooter but as a cutter and with gasol's passing skills he'll be harder to stop..Any offense that has the maestro in Steve Nash will be a great offense..All we need from is a great 30 mins of play and the team will be good.. The lakers can post up howard and gasol anytime and achieve great results..Kobe, Metta, Meeks, Blake, Jamison might shoot 35% and better from 3s..its the steve nash effect...
cemitten
2012-09-27 14:11:27
 @OBoymuzik  For nitpicking clarification's sake, he said guard not two guard.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:15:55
 @ou_sas  @Keith00  @OBoymuzik  @Jooseppi I agree injuries are concerns, and their minutes need to be watched..This team should start really clicking after the all star game and as long as their healthy in the playoffs thats all that matters..Dwight and the doctors have said multiple times that they are expecting a full recovery so i believe them till i see otherwise..Alot of what people are saying against them are injuries, lack of athleticsm..Their not the most perfect team..but can you imagine if the team starts clicking on all cylinders..thats what has most laker fans and me excited...Its easy to say all the things that'll go wrong with the team..but what if they dont and they gell quickly they'll be one hell of a team
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:16:37
 @cemitten  @OBoymuzik lol i meant 2 guards..no one can stop point guards nowadays..
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 14:18:01
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi The butt hurt is strong with this one.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 14:19:23
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi Uh bro, you're being a bit of a drama queen there. ou_sas simply said that he disagreed with your opinion of kobe. Then you went into full swing-from-kobe's-sac mode.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 14:20:06
 @kennygee90 It's not a ludicrous comment. Many unbiased observers would agree that Kobe isn't a top 10 player anymore, those statistically inclined and those not. I like to look at things like that in a tier system, and he's third tier at best there, mainly do to his below league average scoring efficiency last season coupled with one of the top 10 highest usage rates in league history. And he did this with the best big man combo in the league, both of whom are adept offensive players to say the least.    
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:21:35
 @Jooseppi  @kennygee90 Wait, it's almost like every negative criticism leveled at Russ by Skip Bayless and his ilk could be said of Kobe...     I need a Keanu Reaves mind blown meme here.
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:21:45
 @cemitten  @OBoymuzik I have to disagree with your assessment that we've seen Kobe play off the ball a lot. I understand the sentiment in a total perspective, but not in a ratio perspective. He's played limited minutes off the ball throughout games in a long career, but he hasn't played significant minutes off the ball in any long stretch of games. And that's the issue. He could be a happy camper for the first month or two, until he realizes he's only averaging 20 ppg, and that overwhelming desire to still be "the best ever" takes over and he starts forcing shots.   Howard can play PF, true, but why? He's a defensive anchor on defense, and has no perimeter game on offense. Taking him away from the basket to guard PFs would be counterproductive, while sitting him anywhere outside the deep post on offense is equally giving defenses the ability to just sag off as he's not going to hit a jumper.   And I agree that if everything goes their way, they will be scary good. I just think the more likely scenario is in between injury failure and total domination. I think it's more likely Kobe continues to decline than suddenly returns to his prime. I think Nash can't possibly continue at his level (which admittedly is hard to judge because Phoenix sucks - he could be carrying them or just another cog that gets stats because no one else on the team could). I think Pau is very good, but worry how much of an impact he'll have as the 3rd/4th option behind to extremely high usage players (Kobe/Dwight).
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:26:30
 @Jooseppi So scoring efficiency is everything to you? Kobe was the only lakers ball handler and shot creater, playmaker...he was supposed to feed the bigs, make plays for the rest of the other players and also score..thats alot to ask a player to do..Neither Westbrook or Durant are capable of doing that so i dont get your point
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:27:51
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi I'll disagree with you on that one, since that's almost exactly what Westbrook is asked to do (and frequently does). Durant is also getting a better passing touch too, so to say neither KD or Westbrook are capable is not paying attention to the Thunder's players.
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:28:18
 @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Side note: I think Kobe gets too much credit these days (and I literally mean right now current). Last year was not a strong year. He struggled playing heavy minutes, noticeably wore down, and picked up a number of smaller injuries that hurt his abilility. Also, while he was once one of the best defenders in the league, he simply isn't anymore. He's noticeably slower in man-to-man defense and gets beat with speed. This only more noticeable because the Lakers have given up using him as a real perimeter stopper, and is generally hidden against weaker opponents.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:28:42
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Thats the problem , your assuming Kobe will decline and Nash cant play at the same level, I still think they got 2 more years of playing at this current level...Their all top 5 at their positions and extremely High IQ players so im sure they'll make it work..
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:30:11
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Here's the thing. Could Nash have a Brett Favre 1st year in Minny type year? Sure. He absolutely could. But is it more likely that he'd have a Brett Favre 2nd year in Minny? I'd say at his age, yes.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:31:05
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik can you please tell me what players exactly burn Kobe and can't defend?? and like i said earlier, Durant and Westbrook aren't capable of feeding the bigs, playmaking for others and scoring at a high level either..Kobe wore down cause of it hence why the lakers got nash now
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:32:26
 @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Maybe you are right, and they can keep where they are. But I'm not as high on where they are right now as you are either.   And just to compare your point, you said it was Kobe's job to feed the bigs, make plays for the rest of the other players and also score. If those were his measures for success, the only one he succeeded in was scoring. Pau and Bynum should have been considerably bigger parts of the offense and the rest of his teammates wouldn't have mattered if Pau and Bynum were taken care of. And when you look at his scoring, you have to put in that it primarily came from volume, not effectiveness.   Understand, I'm not saying he's bad, or even average. He's a very good player, just not the top of the league guy he used to be (and is widely still called).
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:33:28
 @ou_sas  @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Nash just put up his best fg% of his career last year and 10+ assists with scrubs..he made gortat into an allstar thats all i have to say..chances are he'll shoot better and have more assists than last year since he'll have better players around him
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 14:34:06
 @kennygee90 Scoring efficiency isn't everything, but it's a huge factor when talking about a player with a 35 percent usage rate. It's a tossup between Kobe and Iverson as to who this principle should be named after. You say he was supposed to be the only one doing  these things (which isn't factual), he clearly failed at it. Performed poorly. Especially in the playoffs, where the freezing out was clear. 
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:34:49
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik The problem is not how Nash played last year, it's that at 36, 37, 38, 39... That cliff is pretty steep. Again, he could continue to be amazing. But the closer he gets to 40, the more likely it is that he'll fall off, and fall hard.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:37:48
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Bynum had a career high in touches, Pau played so passively that he had most laker fans frustrated for most of the year..He had the same amount of touches as he had in previous years..he just always looked to pass too many times..Most of the times Kobe was the only aggressive player..Bynum finally made an all star team which should show you that his getting his touches...Yea Kobe didnt shoot at a great % but he did at the start of the year but wore down as the season went along..with nash now, that wont be happening..and the lakers will be blowing out alot of bad teams giving him rest during games
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:37:52
 @Jooseppi  @kennygee90 Scoring efficiency is one of Justin and Crow's biggest beefs with Russ, actually, so this isn't something we arbitrarily are applying to Kobe. We're trying to hold our players to this standard. If you're shooting the ball that much, you better be producing, and not just jacking shots.
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:38:53
 @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik As for which players burn Kobe, I think I remember Monta Ellis (another guy who is not as efficient as his reputation presumes) going off. But that's also the issue, he isn't asked to guard big scorers much at all anymore. Guys don't "go off" on hm much simply because he's not guarding many opponents even capable of going off.   As for Nash, that's a double edge-sword. Nash is a great shooter, but also doesn't shoot that often at all. He put up high assist totals with scrubs, but he also did ALL of the ball-handling and passing when he was on the floor. He's unlikely to be ridden so hard in LA, which will very likely reduce his assist totals. And that still harkens back to the "better Derek Fisher" comment. How valuable is a pass first shooter who can't defend if his touches are limited?
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:39:55
 @Jooseppi He failed at it cause he came up against a better team..And even with that he had the team in a position to be up 3- 1 but the team and him chocked..he started getting worn down in the 4th quarter..with nash and howard he'll be fresh in the 4th quarter where his at his best
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 14:40:51
 @kennygee90 What you keep saying is "Yeah he performed poorly but you can't hold that against him when discussing his performance."
Crow
2012-09-27 14:45:40
 @ou_sas  @crow Thanks ou_sas. I applied for a position with them a few years ago that was somewhat similar but did not set such a long list of qualifications. Had email dialogue with the Director and an offer of a phone interview "soon" then nothing. This was before Dean was hired. I doubt I would be actively considered now but I'll read over it.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:47:14
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Monta ellis never burned Kobe last year..The best players nowadays are shooting forwards nowadays hence why he doesnt guard them.. I agree Kobe's shooting percentages last season was unacceptable but he was being over used..This was Mike Browns fault not Kobes..   Yea kobe didnt perfom to his high standards but neither can Durant and Westbrook..None of em can perform like Kobe at his best....   With Kobe getting alot of attention from the defense Nash will have alot of open 3s..Nash has a great feel for the game and will shoot if needed to..With the suns his passing was more valuable than his shooting hence why didnt shoot alot...he doesnt need to with the Lakers either but if needed his a lethal shooter so its the best of both worlds..Now if the lakers had a shoot first point guard that would be a huge problem with Kobe
Crow
2012-09-27 14:47:17
 @BallSoHarden Second best chance, I'd guess now but it is early.
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:47:26
 @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik The argument isn't that Bynum and Pau never got the ball, it's that they didn't get it enough. If you compare the efficiency (this will keep coming back), you could have traded a third of Kobe's shots between Pau-Bynum and gotten a better result on the scoreboard. That is where the real division lies. Kobe used more possessions than any player in the league, despite the fact that he had more effective scorers on his own team.   This is normal amongst perimeter-post tandems. The perimeter players get the ball easier and are generally much more likely to take the shot. Just because they take all the shots doesn't truly make them the better or more important player (note this is not specifically a dig at the Kobe Lakers - Kobe was their best player, he just took too many shots even for that role).   You can look at OKC and see a similar problem (and even we OKC fans admit it is a problem). KD plays like a shooting big man (Dirk), and Westbrook plays like a ball dominant scoring guard (Wade-Kobe). We cringe when Westbrook gets too deep in scoring mode and starts marginalizing the greatest pure scorer today (Durant). But, Westbrook always starts with the ball and it's always easier for him to look for his own shot or lose a possession, so he continually has the highest usage on the team. We would like to realign that dynamic as much as anyone.
Keith00
2012-09-27 14:51:00
 @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Just one note, but you said Durant and Westbrook can't possibly perform to Kobe's highest level. Westbrook still has the potential (he is capable as a passer-scorer, and has the athleticism to be a tremendous defender - though doesn't actually defend well). Durant on the other hand probably will never pass like Kobe, but is already a better scorer. Defense is still coming along, but again he has the length-athleticism formula to do it.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:51:01
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik your forgetting that Odom was traded , the other player that the lakers shared shots with..Bynum wasnt ready to takeover a team last year and im not sure if he still is this year..And i said before Gasol was too passive even if he got touches he would've still passed the ball up which was extremely annoying..Kobe was the only player who could shoot and I'd rather have him shoot than Blake, and the rest of the scrubs that were on the bench last year
EatSleepThunder
2012-09-27 14:51:29
Oboy you are not the only DT poster to get their twitter post on NBArank anymore http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg210/scaled.php?server=210&filename=screenshot20120927at350.png&res=landing
ou_sas
2012-09-27 14:51:38
 @Keith00  @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik That said, Keith, Westbrook has started figuring out that dynamic much better, especially in the playoffs. He's getting a much better feeling for when he needs to put on the afterburners and when he should defer to KD.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 14:53:08
 @kennygee90  What are Kobe's high standards in terms of scoring? Hes' never had TS% above .600 and has a career mark of.554. For comparison's sake, Durant has two seasons above .600 and a career mark of .582, better than Kobe's best season. And he's 23. With three scoring titles.   
f5alcon
2012-09-27 14:53:30
 @EatSleepThunder wait who did? Royce doesnt really count as this site is espn truehoop blog
cemitten
2012-09-27 14:53:51
 @Jooseppi  HE SCORED 81 POINTS IN THE GARDENNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 14:54:49
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Durant is a better shooter not a better scorer..Both Durant and Westbrook have low IQ in the defensive end but are great athletically that they'll get better through the years..I wasn't Talking about they wont EVER perform at Kobe's level,  i'm just saying their not ready to do that next season..
FREE_COLE
2012-09-27 14:54:50
 @Keith00  @Arent Rose is solidly 9th behind Love, Russ, Wade, Kobe, Paul, DH, KD, Bron
FREE_COLE
2012-09-27 14:57:33
 @OBoymuzik  @diddoff THIS ISN'T THE 90S. WHITE MEN CAN JUMP NOW
FREE_COLE
2012-09-27 14:59:47
 @ou_sas  @Keith00  @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik all of my lolz at this conversation. Jesus
f5alcon
2012-09-27 14:59:58
 @ou_sas  @crow we want to keep crow for ourselves, not share him with the world.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 15:00:20
 @FREE_COLE Off topic, but somebody earlier this summer called Chase Budinger not athletic.
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:00:38
 @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik I think you are underestimating Bynum, but we can agree to disagree there. I won't however accept that Kobe did not have better options at least some of the time. He could have reduced his shots by 20% and the team could have been better spreading those to the frontcourt.   And you might be right that neither is ready to be Kobe in his prime next year, but I didn't really think we were claiming that. Kobe in his prime was the best player in the league. And while Lebron's best is better than Kobe's best (meaning KD could be better without being best in the league), I agree KD isn't yet on that complete domination level. But then, neither is Kobe anymore, so I am confused what this point is meant to say. Kobe not isn't the Kobe he used to be, and he isn't even as good as Durant is now.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:01:22
 @FREE_COLE  @ou_sas  @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik lol im enjoying talking about the lakers here even though its a one day thing
FREE_COLE
2012-09-27 15:01:24
 @Jooseppi Welp. I couldn't even get through that thread. That kobe nonsense was 'first take' worthy
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:01:36
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Serious question: If Kobe's a better scorer then why has he only won 2 scoring titles in all his years in the league?
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:02:59
 @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik I was just saying that cause I thought you were comparing Kobe to his old self,  but never mind about that..
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:03:04
 @ou_sas  @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Let's really not get into that ou_sas, that like the facetious argument saying "You can't be great if you never won a ring, even if you team was constantly filled with scrubs." Scoring titles primarily opportunity.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:03:40
 @Keith00  @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Fair enough, question withdrawn.
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:04:54
 @ou_sas  @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik Easy example is last year. Kobe could have gone into the last few games guns a blazing just to win the scoring title, but KD would still have been the better scorer.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:06:02
 @ou_sas  @Keith00  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik He shared the ball with shaq dude...and he played in an era where Mcgrady and Iverson put up 30+ every season..Whenever Kobe tried to put up those numbers he was told that he wasnt trusting his teammates and shaq would call him selfish...If he didnt have shaq, he would've destroyed the record books..this dude once put up 40points with less than 5mins to go in the 2nd quarter, his offense was scary..
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:06:42
 @Keith00  @kennygee90  @cemitten  @OBoymuzik That's true. Actually, I'm looking at the B-ball reference active scoring list, and KD will finally qualify for the active career numbers here in about 22 points or so. Should jump right in at number 2 (right below Lebron) in the active numbers.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 15:06:49
 @Keith00  @ou_sas  A good comparison though is that Durant has been significantly more efficient and still won three. 
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:08:16
 @Jooseppi  @ou_sas But that's my point, the title isn't based on being efficient or in any way helping a team win. Put Monta Ellis in Charlotte and he probably scores 35 a game, even if he only hits 40% of his shots.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 15:08:39
 @FREE_COLE It's understandable do to the unwavering reverence Lakers fans have toward Kobe. The "MKG's worst case is Iggy" was more ridiculous, in my opinion. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:09:14
 @Jooseppi  @Keith00  @ou_sas I agree Durant is shoots better..i cant deny that..His ability to shoot that well for someone for his height is just freakishly amazing...what Kobe did was that he put the defenses in compromising situations..he put the teams in foul trouble and he attacked the paint like crazy..even the spurs twin towers used to get out the way when he got in the lane..there's nothing he couldn't do on the floor..
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 15:09:25
 @Keith00  @ou_sas I know, I'm just talking about the good balance of volume and efficiency Durant has achieved. 
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:11:03
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Durant attacks too, much more often than he is given credit actually. But that's neither here nor there. Kobe in his prime probably pressed a defense harder, but Durant is actually more of a killer, because he just can't be stopped (similar to a Shaq, except without the free throw heel).
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:12:08
 @Jooseppi  @ou_sas You're right, his volume and efficiency are historically unprecedented (until that jerk Lebron came around and decided to be the best thing since MJ).
EatSleepThunder
2012-09-27 15:12:47
 @diddoff Some people on here over rate Cole and under rate Hasheem and Orton.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 15:14:29
 @Keith00  @kennygee90  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Kobe's advantage offensively over Durant is as a play maker for others.  Durant is a more gifted, complete scoring threat.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 15:15:11
 @Keith00  @kennygee90  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas The nature of how Kobe operates also allowed him to attempt so many shots without sacrificing too much efficiency in his prime.  Which is valuable.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:16:46
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Kobe couldn't be stopped either, he just usually missed alot of shots lol..Kobe was too quick too strong too athletic for any guard..Kobe was the ultimate closer..Replace him with anyother player including lebron and durant and the lakers don't have a 3peat...
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:17:04
 @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Durant's biggest foil in all-time debates is probably going to be that he was such a team player (which is only a hit because he's not a PG). MJ and Kobe wanted to humiliate and dominate their opponents, and some of their best individual games came because they didn't care about their teammates. Wilt was an extreme example, but basically no one else on the team even needed to play offense at times. KD doesn't really do that. He doesn't see himself at 45 points in the third and say, "I'm gonna drop 60 on these jokers, and their going to remember that shame forever." He lets Westbrook go all bad Russ without just taking the ball away. He is happy to be a diversion for lesser scorers. It's great now, but I can see how the narrative will be negatively framed if he doesn't win multiple championships.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:17:16
 @justin_mia  @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas except for shooting what else does durant do better than Kobe in terms of scoring?
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:20:10
 @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Except for making more of his shots, what makes him better? Lol. I know that's not really what you're asking, but it leads to the point. Durant doesn't need to be a better slasher (though he finishes better than Kobe when he gets there) or post up player, he just makes more of his shots anyway. He's also a better free throw shooter, which seems lame, but is going to add up huge given how many free throws KD and Kobe will take in their careers.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:20:12
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Durant is a better shooter consistently but when Kobe got HOT there's nobody bettter in the HISTORY OF THE NBA...I've never seen anything in my life like Kobe when he gets hot..He becomes unstoppable and there's no defense in this world that could stop him...when he got too full blown mamba mode his unlike any other player..
justin_mia
2012-09-27 15:22:29
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas You're breaking it down too much.  Fact is, Durant's career eFG% (50.7%) is higher than any of Kobe's seasons.  His career TS% (58.2%) is also higher than any of Kobe's seasons.  Their career USG is close, but Kobe has some very high USG seasons that allowed him to reach higher point totals than Durant.  But on the whole, Durant makes more of his shots, on similar USG. To me, that means he's the better scorer, no?  You're speaking superlatives that don't make sense.  The numbers clearly support Durant here, but Kobe obviously has more notable moments that may color our perception of his abilities somewhat.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:22:58
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Durant is a better free throw shooter but he doesnt get to the line as much as kobe..Durant doesnt need to be but even if he still not better than Kobe at attacking the paint,,He isnt faster or quicker than the young kobe...he couldnt post up better..
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:23:31
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas I think MJ and Wilt have pretty easy arguments to the contrary on that, but that kind of thing is subjective. The problem is that there are too many players who have had ridiculous individual performances for just one game. No one is hot all the time, and having the hottest single game (and again, Wilt's 100 is right there) has never really meant much to me.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 15:24:11
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Kobe is more skilled than Durant offensively but that does not mean he is a better scorer.  
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 15:25:06
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @ou_sas Career FTAs per game: Kobe: 7.6 Durant: 7.9
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:25:11
 @justin_mia  @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas ok  *skilled * might be the right word...
justin_mia
2012-09-27 15:25:53
 @kennygee90  @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas The reason I say Durant is more 'complete' as a scoring threat is because he is more efficient with what he does, and his skills lend themselves to scoring efficiency.  Kobe became the master of the turnaround jump shot, or mid range game, but that's not generally efficient offense.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:26:05
 @Jooseppi  @Keith00  @ou_sas that includes Kobe's first couple of years when he was coming off the bench..take out the fist two years and im sure the numbers will look different
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:26:26
 @Jooseppi  @Keith00  @ou_sas *first*
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 15:27:20
 @EatSleepThunder this stinks. yesterday morning Justin liked one of my comments and I was ready to brag to everyone about it and by the end of the day he had liked many many more comments. Now this, thanks Royce
Keith00
2012-09-27 15:28:35
 @kennygee90  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas Yeah, I guess I more subscribe to what justin is saying. Just to throw it out there, let's say there was a guy that made exacly 43% of his shots. He never once drew a single foul, and couldn't dunk and got blocked every time he tried a layup. But, let's pretend the only shot ever took was a 3 pointer. Over any similar amount of shots, he would blow away pretty much every scorer in history. And yet he would be a career 43% shooter that only ever had one skill.   Ultimately, you don't need a lot of skills, just one at a very high level.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:29:41
 @justin_mia  @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sasKobe had alot of counters because he didnt have a physical advantage over defenders so he needed to develop all those moves..
justin_mia
2012-09-27 15:32:22
sorry.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 15:32:22
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas true, i see what your talking about now
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 15:33:25
 @OBoymuzik  @EatSleepThunder wow...
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:34:25
 @OBoymuzik  @EatSleepThunder It could be worse, you could have thought that my likes were worth something.
C-Wil
2012-09-27 15:36:39
This list makes us look really bad. It says our bench stinks and we depend on two guys to win us games.   Oh wait.....
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 15:36:58
 @ou_sas  @EatSleepThunder i know if you don't like my comment i said something offensive or really stupid. 
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:37:40
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  Is the world ready for Crow?
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:37:48
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  I don't know.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:38:05
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  Might find out.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:38:21
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  Maybe
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:38:29
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  Maybe not.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:38:41
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  But maybe.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:38:51
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  I think.
cleandoe
2012-09-27 15:39:01
 @ThunderChick2010  @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  +10 for the Crow writing style :)
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 15:39:02
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  :)
cleandoe
2012-09-27 15:39:19
 @ThunderChick2010  @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  +10 for the Crow writing style :)
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 15:43:14
Kobe was too quick too strong too athletic for any guard -kg90   Kobe had alot of counters because he didnt have a physical advantage over defenders - kg90   LOGIC!
Coletrain17
2012-09-27 15:44:56
All I want for Christmas this year is a Justin like
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 15:46:38
 @C-Wil but our bench doesn't stink. 
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:47:59
 @OBoymuzik  @C-Wil That depends on what the average bench level around the league is. Not too many teams will have benches averaging higher than 275, I'd have thought.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 15:49:15
 @ou_sas  @C-Wil i'm talking about real basketball. not the espn nba rank lol
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 15:49:36
 @ou_sas  @C-Wil c wil was saying our bench does stink
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:50:49
 @OBoymuzik  I guess that's true. Though relying on two guys to win games... The same could be said for just about every team around the league.
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 15:50:56
 @OBoymuzik  @ou_sas  @C-Wil even on espn rank our bench doesn't stink.   For comparison: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank-lal-2012/2012-nba-player-rankings-los-angeles-lakers   Lakers have 4 guys with rankings over 8, but nobody else with rankings over 5.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:55:44
 @senseandsenescence  @OBoymuzik  @C-Wil Average Starter Rank (Thunder): 57.8 Average Starter Rank (Lakers): 36
cleandoe
2012-09-27 15:55:56
 @Dwight Howard  Sorry. You'll have to wait. http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r518/cleandoe/prepareuranus.jpg?t=1348779318
ou_sas
2012-09-27 15:56:20
 @cleandoe  @Dwight Howard We're still only just getting to mars, after all.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 15:56:46
newsok's season preview http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2012/09/27/five-questions-okc-thunder-season-preview/   some real lols in here   my favorite: Darnell saying Russ misses more layups than any other elite guard he's ever seen. I hope his point is that Rondo's not elite. 
C-Wil
2012-09-27 16:00:29
 @senseandsenescence  @OBoymuzik  @ou_sas Lakers have 4 players in the top 20 on NBA Rank. Only Miami comes close to that, but even they only have 3. We have two guys in the top 20 and our highest bench player just made the top ONE HUNDRED players in the league. Our savior Eric Maynor, BARELY cracked the top 200. PJ3 is a unknown.    Westbrook and Durant alone will keep us relevant but I'm starting to feel like we're over rating our team a bit. Other guys need to step up in a big way this year or once again we'll come up short. 
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:01:29
 @C-Wil  @senseandsenescence  @ou_sas our bench was bad in the finals. that doesn't mean they're bad overall. and who cares about espns player rank. 
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 16:01:58
 @Coletrain17  Not to brag, but I got one yesterday.  My second or third I think.  I'm cherishing them in my heart.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:02:32
 @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17 everyone got one yesterday
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 16:03:47
 @OBoymuzik  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17  Your dad said you were a punk.
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 16:04:38
 @C-Wil  @OBoymuzik  @ou_sas I'm going by the average score, not the ranking.  Ranking is relatively meaningless because you can have an average score of 5.4 and be ranked anywhere from 99-103 and really not be noticeably different from someone with a score of 5.6 ranked 20 places higher. 
ou_sas
2012-09-27 16:05:07
 @C-Wil  @senseandsenescence  @OBoymuzik Um. UM. Our highest bench player came in at 26.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 16:06:04
 @senseandsenescence  @C-Wil  @OBoymuzik True. I'm just having a ditzy day today. *shrug* It's a friday for me at work because of baby_sas duties tomorrow, so I'm a bit scatterbrained.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 16:08:02
 @OBoymuzik Some lols, true, but there's also some decent points there (nothing we haven't said to infinity on DT, but hey, it is the Oklahoman, they're a little slow at times). 
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 16:09:47
 @OBoymuzik Russ does miss a lot of gimme layups.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 16:10:50
 @ThunderChick2010  @OBoymuzik  @Coletrain17  Amen.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:11:04
 @ou_sas i really enjoy darnells articles after games. but yeah everything on there we've been talking about here. Will probably enjoy the oklahoman articles more when we're in training camp. 
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:13:07
 @MisterJohnsonOKC he does, but rondo misses more
BallSoHarden
2012-09-27 16:17:08
 @OBoymuzik We should do a top 5 questions post here...
cleandoe
2012-09-27 16:18:28
 @OBoymuzik  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17  I didn't get one of those 'cheap' ones. 4 days & 21 hours ago, I earned it :) http://s1169.photobucket.com/albums/r518/cleandoe/?action=view&current=justin_mialiked.jpg
cleandoe
2012-09-27 16:19:37
 @OBoymuzik  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17  I didn't get one of those 'cheap' ones. 4 days & 21 hours ago, I earned it :) http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r518/cleandoe/justin_mialiked.jpg?t=1348780478  
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:21:24
 @cleandoe  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17 boo
cleandoe
2012-09-27 16:22:55
 @OBoymuzik  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17  Potatoes gonna potate
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 16:32:04
To continue a conversation last night.........There were a few posters who took offense to my comment about some people just using stats and never have played the game. I just want to point out that I don't know whether any of you have played the game or not. However, my perspective is someone that has played the game as a small child, coached, and still play basketball several times a week. When I make a statement such as player x isn't good at something, I don't post a stat to back it up. I go by the player's actions on the court. For example about Ibaka's post defense...you can post me any stat you want about him but I see his poor positioning on defense. He doesn't get low enough or even stagger is feet to hold position against bigger players. He doesn't corner his toes for lateral quickness, these are the attributes of a good post defender. I understand that some people prefer stats to backup their opinion and that is fine. However, some here need to understand that stats aren't everything and just because a person doesn't rely on them doesn't make his / her opinion any less valid.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 16:36:33
 @cleandoe  @OBoymuzik  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17  There were no cheap ones.  I worked hard.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 16:39:18
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  It's just obvious that you have confirmation bias, faulty troll-like logic, and a wrong opinion. jk jk  :)
justin_mia
2012-09-27 16:41:26
 @MisterJohnsonOKC Actually if there is objective evidence that supports one view and not another I'd say that one is more likely to be valid.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 16:41:51
 @OBoymuzik He misses a lot of dunks.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:43:49
 @justin_mia Confirmed. 
cemitten
2012-09-27 16:44:29
 @MisterJohnsonOKC unless you say kobe is a better scorer than KD   ~fanning the flames.
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 16:48:22
The Thunder are one of only seven teams to have more than 5 guys earning a score of 5.00 or higher.   9: Clippers 7: Thunder, Heat, Celts, Nugs 6: Mavs, 76ers   Everyone else is presumably unable to field more than a starting lineup of  ostensibly league average players.  I was a bit surprised the spurs weren't higher, but they do have 7 players with a score between 4 and 5 which is best in the league.   Others with lots of players receiving scores of 4.00-4.99   6: Knicks, Bucks, Kings 5: Bobcats, Warriors, Raptor, Wolves   Only Knicks, Wolves (and Raptors) are not relying on at least two of those players to be in the starting lineup.  
justin_mia
2012-09-27 16:48:46
 @OBoymuzik http://bkref.com/tiny/Kb888 fourth worst FG% on dunks for players with 20+ attempts.
f5alcon
2012-09-27 16:49:56
 @MisterJohnsonOKC In the nicest way possible, as I don't have any problems with you, There are some people on here, not me, who played high level college ball, so it isn't like your the only person here who has played basketball and can see what players are doing wrong.
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 16:50:45
 @MisterJohnsonOKC And like I said last night, supporting your position is what I'm asking for.  When you say Ibaka sucks defending the post, you don't really bring much to the conversation.  When you say "He doesn't get low enough or even stagger is feet to hold position against bigger players. He doesn't corner his toes for lateral quickness, these are the attributes of a good post defender."  You are bringing valuable insights to the conversation.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 16:51:22
 @OBoymuzik Westbrook shot almost 60% on layups which is pretty good, especially since he attempted the fourth most in the NBA.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 16:52:01
 @f5alcon Never said that at all bro.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:52:38
 @justin_mia hey this is backwards, like my comments. good stuff though. 
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 16:52:40
 @f5alcon You really took that comment in the worst way possible. It was only geared at individuals who think that only stats matter.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 16:55:01
 @MisterJohnsonOKC Most stats are a measure of what happens on the court. For instance, somebody could have all the elements of a good shooting stroke. with good mechanics. However, if that person shoots 10000 times in his career and only makes 3000, is he a good shooter? Counting is helpful. 
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 16:55:02
 @senseandsenescence Fair enough, to be fair though, you attempted to bring up how I don't care about stats enough to make a valid argument. I figured Ibaka's visual bad habits were pretty obvious...
cleandoe
2012-09-27 16:57:32
 @ThunderChick2010  @OBoymuzik  @Coletrain17  'I love you Justin. Every human likes compliments so eventually you'll give me some likes' Or something like that, right?
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 16:58:06
 @cleandoe  @ThunderChick2010  @Coletrain17 you forgot ":)"
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 16:58:16
 @MisterJohnsonOKC I'm not saying I am proud of everything I said last night, but that is the way you came across in a couple of conversations and it was a direct quote from one of your posts.   Not everyone is watching Ibaka's footwork or form.  People rarely watch off the ball action.  When you make statements like that you give others stuff to look for and improve the knowledge of everyone.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 16:58:25
 @Jooseppi You are really just picking at straws here, those are basic stats such as keeping score, rebounds, blocks etc. I'm talking about using advanced stats and only advanced stats to measure a player. I don't think you understand my point.
f5alcon
2012-09-27 16:59:08
 @MisterJohnsonOKC yeah, i didn't think you meant it that way,  I wasn't trying to cause trouble, and I agree stats are not the only thing to look at, but neither is just feel, advanced stats exist for a reason to find things you can't see,
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 17:01:05
Oh and the Clips only have 9 players with 5+ rankings, because they are the only team in the league without a single guy ranked between 4.00-4.99.
BallSoHarden
2012-09-27 17:01:06
What's going on with Kenyon Martin and why isnt he currently on a team?
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 17:04:18
 @BallSoHarden nope, knicks want him but he wont sign for vet minimum 
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 17:04:26
 @BallSoHarden might go overseas
Harden2Collison
2012-09-27 17:08:08
 @MisterJohnsonOKC Sounds like you deserve a job in a front office somewhere.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:13:21
@Harden2Collison @MisterJohnsonOKC Funny guy.
Barry Amenema
2012-09-27 17:15:47
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  Yes, he is picking at straws...but I don't think you are taking into account exactly how efficient he is at picking them.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:16:34
@f5alcon And you still arent getting the point of the post. I never said stats can't be useful, I just said they aren't everything.
Barry Amenema
2012-09-27 17:20:38
 @justin_mia  A missed dunk, with the obligatory sheepish grin, is my favorite Westbrook play.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:22:01
 @MisterJohnsonOKC I understand perfectly. It's not really picking at straws, it's exactly what you brought up. Say a player defended 10000 shots in the post over his career. He doesn't corner his toes. He gives up more ground than people think he should. Of those situations, the opposing player made 3000 shots and never got fouled. Was his shot defense in the post effective? Please note I am saying shot defense.     
AlexanderFrancisMeyer
2012-09-27 17:24:48
" the most any team had in the top 100 was five, which OKC tied with multiple teams on…" Is incorrect. Denver has 7 players in the top 100.
f5alcon
2012-09-27 17:25:20
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  Who has said stats are everything? Even the biggest stats guys won't say that
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 17:25:52
 @AlexanderFrancisMeyer and they still suck :)
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:26:24
@MisterJohnsonOKC A good example is eFG%, which measures a player's scoring without taking into account FTs. It's used mainly to take into account the value of 3 pointers, as going 5/10 with two made threes is more valuable than 5/10 with 0 made 3s. FG% is quickly devalued when some shots are worth more points than the other. The math is basic: (FGM + [3PM x 0.5]) / FGA. This seems easy enough. Shots made divided by shots attempted. But why is the 0.5 there? It's to take into the account the extra points from a made three pointer, which we obviously know is worth 1 more point, or 0.5 more than a normal field goal. That stat just adds the 0.5 from made field goals. It's not nefarious, it's not complicated, it's just basic math used to show the effectiveness of things you counted on the court.  
Bryson
2012-09-27 17:26:58
 @MisterJohnsonOKC As someone else who plays frequently, and therefore is able to notice certain things, I like to point out actions as well. Stats just aren't reliable in my opinion. 
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:27:36
 @Jooseppi Those numbers make no sense, if he is giving up that much ground with that poor positioning he will get scored on or foul much more. I don't understand how made up hypothetical statistics are going to help anything.
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 17:27:54
 @Jooseppi  @MisterJohnsonOKC Shouldn't that be * 1.5
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:28:21
 @senseandsenescence  The 1 is already accounted for in the FGM. 
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:29:22
 @MisterJohnsonOKC I'm asking what you would believe, not whether it is realistic.
senseandsenescence
2012-09-27 17:29:34
 @Jooseppi Yeah,  not enough thinking and too much posting.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:30:18
 @senseandsenescence My wording was terrible: A 3PM is worth one 0.5 more normal FGs made.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:33:00
 @Jooseppi Thanks for the lesson, I am well aware of eFG%, however. You are once again missing my point. I never said stats can't be useful. I said that they don't mean EVERYTHING and should be the only reasoning in a discussion to evaluate a player.
FREE_COLE
2012-09-27 17:34:06
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @Jooseppi I don't think anyone has ever said they are the defining factor.  But when you have statistical evidence that runs contrary to the eye test, it's time to reevaluate your initial eye test more often than not.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:34:51
 @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi I could say the complete opposite.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:37:11
 @MisterJohnsonOKC It's absolutely right to be skeptical of some stats. Do situational statistics on synergy show everything? Absolutely not. But they do show something, and it's worth taking into account. I'm skeptical of many formula-based estimates and try to not use them. I don't like winshares. I could go on.  Turning it the other way, somebody only looking at base stats for this year would assume Thabo was a three point specialist. Stats can show this was probably an outlier for him, or use splits to show he just was fortunate for one part of the season, bloating his numbers etc. For me, I know he isn't because this happens almost every game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnVcYQrpR68
Jubanator14
2012-09-27 17:37:22
"...and Nick Collison an 11."   I knew I wasn't the only one who loved Nick Collison that much.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:38:21
 @Jooseppi This kind of proves both of our points at the same time. My head hurts now....
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:39:41
 @Bryson I agree, in my opinion there needs to be a logical and even blend of both.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:39:42
 @MisterJohnsonOKC Nor did I suggest they should be. I'm not a 100 percent stats guy. I'm on the Reggie bandwagon. Do I think he's going to shoot in the 30s next season? No, because I see what he has. He has the skill set and mechanics to be an effective PnR player, and I think he will be 
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 17:41:13
 @Jooseppi Reggie looked to me like he lacked confidence. If you aren't confident in your shot, it's likely not going to fall. I think he'll get that up to something a bit more respectable next season.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:44:05
 @f5alcon  @MisterJohnsonOKC Not even Crow. He was gushing about Gorqui Dieng from Louisville, citing his footwork and hands, not stats.
D@nny
2012-09-27 17:44:13
I can't beleive more people put NC as a 5 than put him as a 6. He's above average, for gosh sake!   Continuing the Uncle Jeff conversation from the Bolt's discussion: yes, Boston overvalued him big time. Does anybody remember that game that OKC won at Boston (without KD, if memory serves me right)?   And Green hit, like, 20 three-pointers from the corner to ice the game for the good guys? That game always stuck out to me. I'm going to go ahead and say that's why Manning paid him--I'm going to assume that guy only watches Boston games (and barely, even then).
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 17:44:24
@f5alcon@MisterJohnsonOKC Not even Crow. He was gushing about Gorqui Dieng from Louisville the other night, citing his footwork and hands, not stats.  
FREE_COLE
2012-09-27 17:44:42
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @Jooseppi Given a proper understanding of statistical modeling and having it peer reviewed, stats are significantly less likely to be erroneously false compared to fans opinion/perception.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-09-27 18:00:16
 @Bryson Do you play in a league or anything?
cemitten
2012-09-27 18:01:05
good news i finally figured out how to kinda a little bit use pivot tables.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 18:08:10
 @cemitten they are very useful 
cemitten
2012-09-27 18:09:14
 @justin_mia The more I play with excel the more I feel myself nerding out and getting excited by it.  Pivot tables are apparently the coolest thing excel has done recently. I'm finally catching on to it.
justin_mia
2012-09-27 18:12:20
 @cemitten pivot tables exited in excel since the early 90's but they were featured more prominently in excel 2007 and made much easier to use
justin_mia
2012-09-27 18:12:32
 @cemitten *existed
cemitten
2012-09-27 18:16:54
 @justin_mia ahh.  I didn't know that. Cool
duhsweetness
2012-09-27 18:23:14
 @cemitten  @justin_mia Nerrrrrrrrrrrds.
novelisticbee0
2012-09-27 18:43:47
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ken-berger/20388749/new-policy-in-the-works-to-combat-nba-flopping   This should get interesting.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 18:45:36
 @novelisticbee0 /awesome
Fuzzy Logic
2012-09-27 18:47:16
The league is close to implementing post game fines for flopping? Harden better hold out for the absolute maximum he can get....
kennygee90
2012-09-27 18:58:04
 @Fuzzy Logic LMAO..
kennygee90
2012-09-27 19:06:43
My ravens are playing their 4th game in 18 days...this is crazy and dangerous for players health...oh well,  gotta stomp these Cleveland browns aka Charlotte Bobcats of the NFL
Arent
2012-09-27 19:20:26
 @kennygee90 Man, Cleveland has been bad for as long as I can remember. I feel bad for them.
supreme35
2012-09-27 19:29:50
 @kennygee90 Are you from Maryland?
El Prez
2012-09-27 19:30:59
How disappointing...my Ferris Bueller Day Off never got off the ground. I wish I would have worked instead all things considered. Maybe this NFL game will somewhat salvage it for me. When I was younger--the Ferris Bueller Day Off just seemed to come naturally. It was an omen early when I picked up a few things at a Dollar General and 'tried' to pay with a check that goes through the machine immediately. The woman clerk had no idea what she was doing and it took almost twenty minutes to complete the transaction. She wouldn't let me pay by cash as it became apparent this machine has been her nemisis before. She started cursing at the machine and told it she was going to hurt it...sigh. Kind of set the tone right there and then. I wonder if I hadn't had my karma set in reverse by this woman if my day would have gone better.
BallSoHarden
2012-09-27 19:36:39
 @cemitten Ahh, a little data summarization. As an Accountant, I use Pivot Tables all too much. You should apply some V-lookups along with those Pivots.
BallSoHarden
2012-09-27 19:41:51
 @kennygee90 Yea, I was thinking they have played several primetime games this year. Pretty tired of watching them. Also, can we just all come to the conclusion that Ray Rice is the best running back in the NFL? The guys is a beast and he is built to sustain a successful career.
Tronchaser
2012-09-27 19:50:31
 @BallSoHarden  @kennygee90 don't jinx me BSH, the guy I'm playing tonight in FF has Rice and Flacco playing.  Pray for a low scoring game!
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 19:51:37
Guys we definitely could have pulled a "Fun With Dick and Jane" at Raising Canes today and gotten James to accidentally sign a contract extension. http://twitter.com/RohdeOK/status/251480279707942912/photo/1
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 19:54:38
 @El Prez Too bad dollar generals probably don't have great video surveillance. I would love to see that footage 
EatSleepThunder
2012-09-27 20:03:02
 @OBoymuzik Please sign this totally non suspicious paper james.  Sure thing. HA WE JUST SIGNED YOU TO A 10 YEAR DEAL WORTH $2  AND A HAM SANDWICH!
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 20:24:27
 @EatSleepThunder I was thinking more along the lines of writing a contract onto a basketball or thunder jersey and tricking him into signing on a line.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 20:29:23
 @El Prez  Your wife, wise to your patio furniture-destroying ways, put her up to it.
kennygee90
2012-09-27 20:35:41
 @supreme35 yea, i am.. 
kennygee90
2012-09-27 20:36:22
 @Tronchaser  @BallSoHarden LOL
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:10:54
 @OBoymuzik Show me a true open "layup" that Russ has blown.  What I've seen are Russ's attempts at monster dunks that clang off the rim/board.  BUT let me be clear - the occasional clanger is well worth his highlight reel dunks.  No complaints from this fan.
Bryson
2012-09-27 22:11:45
 @MisterJohnsonOKC Highschool haha
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 22:17:05
 @DennisBerry  @novelisticbee0 i've seen other ones but truthfully they were pretty boring. lots of breakaway layups and stuff like that. 
El Prez
2012-09-27 22:19:10
The veins were popping in my neck. It was kind of like Nicholson trying to order that tuna salad sandwich in Five Easy Pieces. It was pathetic. She did everything wrong. Left me alone at the counter waiting for several minutes. Left several items off the intial bill. Then the check machine debaucle. But I bit my lip. I didn't go into a road rage like tsunami. But I was done for the day with any hopes of capturing any Ferris Bueller magic.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:23:29
Thoughts on our opening day rotation at the 4 and 5 spots? Out-of-game-shape-Perk will start and rack up Ts at record pace, then get injured again in week 2 and miss extended games until January ala Thabo. Serge will start at the 4.  Nick will come in early and play a lot (its regular season, not playoffs). Orten will be in Tulsa or Europe, leaving us Cole and HASHEEM. Yes, we can and will go small early and often. But - heaven forbid - what will we do if Serge or Nick go down to injury (recall Nick's injury woes 2 years ago, and he's not getting any younger)? 
S4TISF4CTION
2012-09-27 22:24:57
 @OBoyzOld Man Play PJ3.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:26:41
 @El Prez Avoid Dollar General at all cost. Dollar Tree is the ticket.  Their hiring standards are significantly lower, and everything's a dollar...which is nice.
Eggs_Benedict
2012-09-27 22:27:13
I'm curious what everyone here thinks would be a suitable post-game fine for flopping!  What do you think?
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:27:32
 @OBoymuzik  @El Prez Dollar General surveillance is a dude with a sketch pad.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 22:27:59
 @Eggs_Benedict Gotta help clean the arena.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-09-27 22:28:34
 @ThunderChick2010  @Eggs_Benedict "One million dollars." -Jeff Van Gundy
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 22:30:10
 @Eggs_Benedict public humiliation. 
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:31:18
 @Eggs_Benedict   Having to submit to a post-game interview, every game, with Doris Burke.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:33:58
 @Eggs_Benedict   have Kelly CRoll's voice piped through your Skulll Candy headphones non-stop for 24 hours.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:34:44
 @S4TISF4CTION Thank you for not suggesting Lazar.
El Prez
2012-09-27 22:35:21
Surveillance? Shit I had to yell for her to come from the back of the store to come take my money. It's like that every time I go in there though...like every one of their employees has graduated from the Dollar General Misfit Academy. 
neo12
2012-09-27 22:36:47
 @novelisticbee0  @DennisBerry Pretty incredible how much he's developed his game since college.  I followed him throughout ucla, but that video just reminded me how limited he was at ucla.  He was just considered a defensive stopper. and now? he's the honey badger.
ou_sas
2012-09-27 22:37:02
 @Eggs_Benedict Having to wear one of Sager's suits.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:38:51
 @ou_sas  @Eggs_Benedict or one of Russ's outfits for a day
El Prez
2012-09-27 22:39:06
We don't have a Dollar Tree in Deer Creek--jist the Dollar General asyleum. It's amazing they can stay in business.
DennisBerry
2012-09-27 22:41:58
 @OBoyzOld Man  @Eggs_Benedict How dare you slander the name of Doris Burke? I'd give my life savings to be post game interviewed by her, especially to be "interviewed" by her. Me and her would make some lovely, basketball lovin', mixed race childrens
DennisBerry
2012-09-27 22:43:25
 @El Prez You know it only costs 20 racks to franchise and open one of those? I was seriously contemplating it at one point. Problem is, their profit margins obviously aren't so favorable selling everything so inexpensively
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:45:11
Re-listened to entire Presti presser today at normal speed.  Spoiler correction:  Harden does NOT sign extension, nor does Maynor.  Brooks convinces Presti to sign Fish to guaranteed 5 year deal.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 22:46:11
 @OBoyzOld Man the bad part about this post is that I know you are not a drug user. 
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:48:30
 @OBoymuzik Correct, but I did sit through every 2012 playoff game, asking "why is Fish still in the game?"
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 22:49:54
 @El Prez  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpxzX_YZGLM  
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:50:21
Speaking of Brooks, which is it - Scottie or Scotty?   I know one is an annoying, ankle-biting lap dog.  The other is a whiny 8 year old brat at the playground.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 22:51:54
 @DennisBerry  @El Prez *waits for El Prez to ask what a rack is*
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 22:52:19
 @OBoyzOld Man  It is voting season.  Let's just vote with likes.  (EatSleepThunder wishes he'd thought of this one.)
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:53:29
 @El Prez Fortunately, your Deer Creek Dollar General (Portland and 2nd, right?) conveniently has a liquor store in the strip center right next door.  Coincidence?  I think not.
Thunder S
2012-09-27 22:56:04
Thoughts on Sebastian pruiti's role with the thunder? I dont know if him being a video analyst means a lot to our schemes or whether he'll just be another advance scout?
OBoyzOld Man
2012-09-27 22:58:39
 @DennisBerry  @Eggs_Benedict You, my friend, are in desperate need of professional help.  :)
kennygee90
2012-09-27 22:59:18
 @supreme35 LOL i lived in LA when i was 5 till 11 and got converted into a Lakers fan since Maryland doesnt have an NBA team
kennygee90
2012-09-27 23:01:59
Have yall ever seen this clip..Someone showed it to me and it got me LMAO ..Reggie evans is disturbed mane ! lol   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOw_ogBVmdo
DennisBerry
2012-09-27 23:05:43
 @kennygee90 Please go to the principal's office and get a late pass
DennisBerry
2012-09-27 23:09:16
 @OBoyzOld Man  @Eggs_Benedict If you dont find her attractive you need help. You must be a Catholic Priest or Boy Scout Captain who likes boys. She is gorgeous, athletic build but still has a phatty, knows and plays ball herself, She's 19 yrs older than me but I aint mad. That just means provided we both live to the same age, I'll have 2 decades to spend the end of my life on blue pills with a 21 yr old who is just with me for my money
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 23:14:21
 @OBoyzOld Man  @DennisBerry  @Eggs_Benedict I've read long enough to see that Doris Burke is one of the more divisive figures on DT.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-27 23:31:39
 @OBoyzOld Man this is true
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-27 23:45:57
 @f5alcon  @ou_sas  @crow  Don't be mad, Crow.  Still love ya.
Jooseppi
2012-09-27 23:49:07
A bit late on this, but I think Cleveland is having open tryouts for their o-line if anybody is interested.
supreme35
2012-09-27 23:52:32
 @kennygee90 Oh okay.. no one is a fan of the Wizards lol.. I followed KD that's why I'm an OKC fan
supreme35
2012-09-27 23:54:14
 @Jooseppi Their offensive line only gave up 1 sack... Baltimore's defense made Weeden look like a pro bowler lol
Jay Cutler
2012-09-28 00:17:28
Hey Scotty,   You're not returning my calls. You're still psyched for dinner right? Hope you like beef bourguignon.     #athleticwhitemenwhoarealsofoodies   #jayandscottybrooksstrikeback  
Jooseppi
2012-09-28 00:47:33
 @supreme35 But they can't block a run.
Jooseppi
2012-09-28 00:55:21
New Suns court is going to look odd without new unis. There were supposed to be new ones this year but it doesn't look like they are going to get them: http://www.nba.com/suns/video/2012/09/25/NewBasketballCourtTimelapsewmv-2227910/index.html Wish teams would stop getting rid of purple.  One cool thing: the center logo reads the same from both sides: http://i49.tinypic.com/20hswp4.jpg
Thunder S
2012-09-28 01:05:41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FP0ua5xFw4   Best dunk ever. Jamal got Boykined.
Scott Brooks
2012-09-28 02:43:04
 @Jay Cutler Why do you think we're friends? I'm Scott "F'n" Brooks. I took OKC to the Finals on my back!   You're Jay Cutler...   #WillBeEatingWithBrady #GoPractice
Tronchaser
2012-09-28 08:51:01
 @Jooseppi Purple is ugly.  I like this trend.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-28 09:05:14
 @Tronchaser  @Jooseppi  Um . . . Chickasha . . . Purple Pride.  :)
El Prez
2012-09-28 09:18:07
I don't equate Doris Burke with erotic fantasies, but she seems like a pleasant woman with smarts. I'm actually impressed you would consider Doris Burke as your soulmate. I didn't realize you were so deep.
Barry Amenema
2012-09-28 09:25:53
 @kennygee90 Reggie Evans knows how to ball?
Zach99
2012-09-28 09:27:36
Injuries let Miami discover how unguardable they are when they went small last year.   If we could go small without freaking useless Derek Fisher out there, I think we might discover something similar.   A lineup of Westbrook Thabo Harden Durant Ibaka playing together early and often next year might pay off big time in the playoffs.
OBoymuzik
2012-09-28 09:37:47
 @Scott Brooks  @Jay Cutler  it's ok @S4TISF4CTION plenty of sane people have conversations with themselves. 
Keith00
2012-09-28 09:46:50
 @Zach99 Our smallball lineup is already dominant. The main issue is our big, not our wings. Perk can't run the floor to keep up with the lineup, Collison can't rebound, and Ibaka tends to get lost without Perk/Collison organizing the defense.   Our smallball unit I believe was by far our best unit all year, and was one of the best in the entire league. The issue with Miami was trying to use Ibaka to guard Battier or Perk to guard anyone.
Tronchaser
2012-09-28 09:55:49
 @ThunderChick2010  @Jooseppi A couple of people I know went to high school with live in Chickasha, and post all their CHS pics of football kids/cheerleaders.    I though about blocking them.  :)   j/k
Zach99
2012-09-28 10:05:38
 @Keith00 Yeah it was good, but the problem is Brooks didn't have faith to stick with it or the courage to start games with it .    He insisted on starting Perk against Miami.  He insisted on bringing Perk back even when small ball was going well.  He insisted on playing Fisher even though he brought nothing to the table offensively or defensively.   It's our best lineup and it will be better without Fisher out there this year I believe.  I want Brooks to be forced to use it until not even he can deny how effective it is.   I'd like to see us become a predominantly small ball team.  It works for Miami and we have the players to play similarly.  Another reason to spend a lot of minutes in small ball is that it is probably the only way that PJ3 sees any significant minutes.   As to your point about Ibaka getting lost.  I agree, let's get him out there without Perk or Collison for a bunch of minutes during the regular season and teach him to improve on that.
Jooseppi
2012-09-28 10:15:31
 @Keith00  It's a bit of both, but the bigs seemed to be the biggest determining factor in the playoffs, where the team played most of its small ball (they did in the regular season but not with as much regularity). The Russ/JH/Thabo/Durant/Perkins lineup was positive against Miami, mainly because of better defense. The corresponding Ibaka lineup wasn't great against Miami but positive overall. Collison lineup didn't play much.  Russ/Fish/JH/Durant/Collison was outstanding against Miami. Sub Ibaka in and that lineup got shredded against Miami. The Perkins equivalent didn't play a lot against Miami but didn't do well in the little time it got. The Fish smallball lineups didn't really kill OKC, and they were better than the likely two-big alternative against Miami, Thabo probably would have made those lineups even better.  
Zach99
2012-09-28 10:15:38
Show highlights of the worst flops from the last week in every NBA arena to the tune of "You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman" or maybe "Loser" by Beck.
ThunderChick2010
2012-09-28 10:28:24
 @Tronchaser  @Jooseppi  I think we were brainwashed . . . forced to wear and cheer for the purple/gold our whole lives.