Thunder have talked about moving up to get Bradley Beal

Are the Thunder looking at doing something massively drastic Thursday night? Something seemingly very un-Thunder?

Well, maybe. According to Bradley Beal.

The Florida sharpshooter told ESPN.com that the Thunder have told him they are exploring options to move up in the draft to get him.

Beal told ESPN.com Wednesday that Oklahoma City general manager Sam Presti told him during an interview in Chicago that he was interested in trying to move up to draft him. The Thunder’s first-round pick isn’t until No. 28.

“He told me he was going to decide what they’re going to do and considered getting up there,” Beal said.

It’s a hunch, but I’m thinking Beal isn’t going to fall to 28. If the Thunder are to land him, it would have to come via a fairly dramatic trade. One most likely involving James Harden. That scenario actually isn’t anything new, as a report from Jeff Goodman of CBSSports.com actually mentioned OKC dealing Harden to Charlotte for the No. 2 pick.

Obviously Beal has interest in playing for the Thunder, as he told ESPN.com.

“I’ve heard it a lot,” Beal said of the Thunder scenario. “It’s really interesting. I would love to play with Kevin Durant. (Russell) Westbrook, great point guard. Just the whole team. It’s young; I would love to play with a young team. They play fast. I’d love to get up and down, shoot the ball. Overall, whatever situation I land in I’ll be happy.”

So how serious is this? Consider this part from Andy Katz of ESPN.com:

Still, Presti has seriously considered finding a way to get to Beal. A number of sources said that Presti spent three days in Gainesville during the lockout watching the Gators practice, a fact that Beal confirmed Wednesday.

A source also said that Florida coach Billy Donovan met with Presti in Dallas when he took his two nephews to the Oklahoma City-Dallas first-round playoff series in May. Presti and Donovan have had multiple conversations on the phone about Beal, as well.

A source with direct knowledge of the situation said, “Oklahoma City exhausted every opportunity on campus to find out everything they could find out about Beal. They’ve done everything they can.”

My feeling? It’s all smoke and mirrors. That’s how most of this draft stuff works. And it’s just so hard for me to picture the Thunder moving Harden now, when they’re guaranteed another season with him already. This scenario seems a lot more plausible a year from now, if the Thunder feel there’s no way to keep the entire core together. But why make such a major move now, rather than wait until it’s actually necessary?

By moving up to grab Beal though, the Thunder could essentially solve a lot of those luxury tax questions and open the door to extending the life span of a young core a few years more. But that’s operating under the assumption that Beal is anything close to the player James Harden is, that he’ll fit in between Westbrook and Durant and that he can contribute early. Because the Thunder expect to contend again next season. Trading Harden would signal a step back, unless Beal is a super rookie.

Besides, I’m of the mind that if the Thunder choose between Ibaka and Harden, Ibaka will be the one to go, not Harden.

With Presti and the Thunder though, it’s hard to really ever put a finger on what they’re doing or thinking. Just when it’s all making sense, wham, they change directions. But this move is not one that I’d support and would signal the Thunder franchise isn’t as well equipped to handle a big time roster and maybe we’d hoped. It would essentially say that the luxury tax is a major deterrent for the Thunder and anything even sniffing it means a massive blow up. That’s not a good thing for an organization that wants to build a core that can grow together. It basically says, “Yep, we’re poor.”

But as is with the draft, there’s a lot of talk, a lot of chatter. Bradley Beal isn’t hurting his stock by saying the Thunder are interested. With so much respect for Presti’s drafting ability, just saying OKC is trying to get him might inspire another GM to grab him higher than otherwise thought.

Are the Thunder planning something major? I don’t know and I seriously doubt it, but Thursday night just got a little more interesting in Oklahoma City.

Keith00
2012-06-27 22:43:20
 @bmuelle21 Beal is a great shooter in the same way Westbrook is a good shooter. Both have good form when they set their feet. Both seem to be able to get their shot off quickly and easily. Scouts seem to love Beal as a shooter because he was a good shooter in high school and because he has great mechanics. I still don't want us trading up for him.
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 22:43:14
 @MrRaysian What is Hardens ceiling? What if this is it? Are we willing to pay the money will have to in order to keep him? Will it be enough to put us over the top or what if he regresses? Then we are screwed...no cap room plus a failing player...
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:41:52
 @bmuelle21 1 year of college is kind of tricky to judge someone on
thunderatom
2012-06-27 22:42:43
i cant wait for these trades not to happen. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:41:39
 @Prye05  @bmuelle21 I thought I rread he was 6'4 in shoes.  I coudl be rong, but he does not look 6'5 to me at all.  he looks small on teh college floor, hell be even smaller in teh pros
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:41:09
 @Daniel Hawaii just trying to create chaos
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:41:10
How is Beal considered an excellent shooter? Looks like he is more average to me at best. Out of the top guards his shooting efficiency off the dribble was fifth worst at 0.615 Points Per-Possession and he wasn't much better shooting off the catch. He shot 33.9% from behind the arc.    I'll give him credit though he did turn it on the last 10ish games off the season and lit it up but If it wasn't for that this guy wouldn't even be a top 5 pick or even possibly top ten
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:40:27
 @OBoymuzik Yes it is.
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:40:41
 @Daniel Hawaii  @MrRaysian I mentioned it before, but there is another utility for this smoke and mirror show. Presti could be using draft position to gauge just how much the rest of the league values Harden and Ibaka. If Harden isn't worth this year's number 2 pick, he certainly wouldn't command a max contract in RFA. Meanwhile, if Ibaka IS good enough to land a top 4 pick, he'll assuredly be overpaid as a RFA.
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:40:13
 @OBoymuzik Haha. Oh I see. I always thought Plainview was a city in Oklahoma.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:40:22
 @MrRaysian lol, I know, I know, but I think its exacervbater by teh rumors of us grabbing Beal.  I far prefer MKG to Harden Light
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:39:35
 @Daniel Hawaii Mark, Daniel Plainview is teh main Character in There WIll BE Blood
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:39:44
 @Daniel Hawaii  is your name daniel?
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:39:06
 @Daniel Plainview Wait, is your name Daniel or Mark?
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 22:38:24
 @Daniel Plainview your man crush for MKG is insanely high. what did u do? fall in love with his hustle and work ethic?
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 22:37:09
 @dwil4d10 but we still improve with every off-season. This is the beauty of having a core group of 23 year olds and guys with attitudes like Kevin Durant, they only get better. and again, it's not like Miami is becoming significantly better with these rumoured free agent signings. all they are doing is replacing current shooters with new ones and they are all not getting younger. 
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:37:09
 @Daniel Plainview MKG tended to defer in Kentucky too. He was an off-ball energy guy, not a big time scorer (unless open around the basket). I think he would score 10 ppg here tops. For one, the amount of shots it would take for him to get 15 points is above Harden's usage, which simply isn't happening. I think 10-6.5-1.5-1 blk would be a very fair and good line for him here. Maybe 7 shots per game and a primarily defensive focus.   I want to get excited about the draft and high picks too. The draft is literally what got me into the NBA in the first place. But if the Thunder are trading up, Harden should not be the piece. And if they can get into the top 4, Robinson is the best fit for what we need and what we can use. MKG would be wonderful as a 4th option offensively and a leader defensively. He could very well improve the mindset and work ethic of those around him. But none of those things are missing from the Thunder. None are needs in the immediate future, and positionally he simply doesn't bring what we are missing to significantly upgrade in the future.
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:35:58
 @Daniel Plainview  He has a 6-7 wingspan.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:34:53
 @TC_42 drummond shot 29% from the line...no thanks
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:35:13
Mr. James Harden, if you are reading this, I apologize with my willy-nilly musing about your departure.  I love you dearly and never want you to go, but this is a business, and I really am not convinced your gonna sign here for 3-5 million less than you could get elsewhere and I will not judge you of you do.  Miss and love you, Mark
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:34:14
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar completely forgot about the dump off pass, good point...he had a lot of games where he had more receiving yards then rushing yards
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:33:15
 @Daniel Plainview  @bmuelle21 Beal is 6'5" not sure how that's small.
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:31:53
 @MrRaysian  @Keith00  If we're getting Beal, it has to be Harden that's moved. We can't have 3 SGs on the roster. And I have no doubt Harden will play well if we keep him. I'm just saying there's no reason for us to be putting up smoke and mirrors in our current situation. I say we do the deal. It makes too much sense. We'd be getting the #2 pick and sacrificing a little bit of talent in exchange for the huge salary cap relief we'd be getting. And who knows, Beal's ceiling might be higher than Harden's. Dude can flat out shoot the ball and is a good passer for a SG. Sound familiar? That's why I think Presti is seriously considering this.
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:30:57
 @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar My favorite part about Best is his ability to catch and run with short passes. If he was healthy, that could be a bigger weapon than the dump off passes to Pettigrew (whom I love, but who isn't fast or shifty after the catch).
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:29:38
 @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar And that's the point. If there is a hole to hit, he can take it to the house. But we don't make a lot of those, and he doesn't manufacture space like other good RBs.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:29:18
 @Keith00 Ok, ok, Im getting worked up.  My numbers are a bit high and this always happens to me around draft, its called Draft Fever.  However, I maintain he would inorive our team.  15 and 6.5 is fair.  About his assists, what % did his team shoot, and he was probably given teh green light at Kentucky, where here, he would have to defer.
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:28:35
 @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview Good point, but 8 rebounds is as much as KD. MKG simply wouldn't get the minutes to accomplish something like that.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:27:30
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview if only perkins would get some rebounds for him to steal lol 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:28:25
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar true...i just remember the run he had on monday night football against the bears...he just hit the hole and exploded lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:26:53
 @bmuelle21I agree.  I think there are at least 3 otehr SGs in this draft that will be almsot as good or better than Beal>  he looks small to me.
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:27:23
 @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar Best has more problems than concussions, he runs soft. Fast as hell if he can get open, but he doesn't create much for himself. I think the running game is somewhat of a lost cause unless we are playing the Panthers every game, or until we replace Raiola-Peterman-Cherilus on the O-line.
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 22:26:50
 @Keith00  @Tronchaser  @Daniel Hawaii well the rumour never ever mentioned Harden's name. it just so happens to be that most fans picture him being sent to require the pick, but it never means it was going to be him
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:25:43
 @Daniel Plainview I think that's absolutely crazy. Harden only averaged 16.8 last year, and MKG is years away from being that good offensively. 8 rebounds is also nearly preposterous because he would have to play 36 minutes per game and be stealing those rebounds from KD, Serge, or Perk. MKG also averaged fewer than 2 assists per game in college playing with the most talented teammates in the nation. He's not a strong enough passer or ballhandler, nor will he get the minutes to average those kinds of number.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:25:41
 @Daniel Plainview I guess i'm ok giving up pieces for MKG but i just can't get on the Beal bandwagon...if we got Beal i think it is going to be a huge mistake but that's just me
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:24:31
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar I'll agree with Broyles being a first rounder if he wasn't hurt but still...as a lion's fan i think its a guarantee you are going to see a WR drafted every NFL draft lol   I just want one of our running backs to work out lol...too bad Best has so many concussion problems 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:22:46
Ok, maybe 16 and 7
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:22:20
I think MKG could be a 17, 8 reb, 2.7 assist, 1 B  a game guy his rookie year and a great defender who is only going to improve his all around game
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:21:54
 @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar I will say this, Broyles would have been a first rounder if he wasn't hurt, possibly the second WR off the board. And while I think they wanted to trade up in the first, Rieff was too great of a fit and value. If anything, I was just diappointed in the DBs available this year. I would still be fine with flipping Avril for a quality CB if there is a trade available. Avril does his job very well, but the Lions have the personnel to replace him.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:20:20
 @Daniel Plainview  @dwil4d10 you are talking about MKG right?
Bryson
2012-06-27 22:20:23
I've been very skeptical about all the rumors...but I've slowly become more curious. Presti is always talking about 'long term success'. Maybe he realizes the odds of keeping James and Serge aren't very good, and he is making a move for sustained success. Just an observation...
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:19:38
 @bmuelle21  @dwil4d10 Hes a big Harden, more liek a big Ginobli, especially if he develops a perimeter game. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:19:13
 @Daniel Plainview  @Keith00  @Grolgar yea i don't understand the lions obsession with WR...remember drafting charles rodgers? lmao...I'm glad to see stafford coming along though...the fact that he was left out of the pro bowl really pissed me off though, he wasn't even a freaking alternate.
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:19:07
 @Tronchaser  @Daniel Hawaii Is Harden really so insecure that a single rumor throws him out of whack? A lot of people (myself included at the time) thought we should have draft Rubio to play PG. Russ was just a rookie then and Presti did considerably more active research on Rubio. Russ was fine, he continued to develop and is now one of the best in the game. Harden isn't going to go through the summer pissed off if we DON'T trade him but he read a rumor that we MIGHT.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:17:48
If I win the lottery between now and tomorrow i'll offer up part of my winnings to keep harden and ibaka lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 22:17:35
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21  @Grolgar  Lions draft pissed me off this year.  I took work off to watch it and thougt for ceratin we were gonna address teh DB position at least in teh second round.  Broyles wasnt projectedd to be taken before 4
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:17:10
What do you think Harden is thinking right now? possibly this time tomorrow he could be a member of what was one of the worst NBA teams in league history last year.
Tronchaser
2012-06-27 22:15:47
 @Daniel Hawaii Due diligence is all.  He *has* to, it's his job. :)
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:15:55
 @dwil4d10 the concern with beal for me is I really just think he's a streaky shooter. I don't think you can ignore how he started off the year...if i wasn't for his finish imo he wouldn't be a top 5 pick. I know harden can be streaky from time to time but he at least can get to the rim when his jump shot isn't falling. A lot of that has to do with the pick and roll and beal is horrible at that. 
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:14:40
I think Presti is serious about this. Why would he do all that research and scouting on the kid? Why would he interview him in Chicago? What possible reason would he have to put up "smoke and mirrors," Royce? That would do more harm than good. Rumors like this would just piss off Harden. There has to be some truth to this. 
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:14:19
 @Old Man Game We SHOULD be able to find more revenue streams given the team's popularity and exposure. But I'm not a multi-millionaire businessman and won't pretend to know the details.
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 22:13:07
 @bmuelle21  Harden is only like 35-39%...I think Beal could be about the same in the NBA...I'm with you on MKG..but more for the defense...and he's only 18..I think with KDs help..he will find a shot...
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 22:12:38
 @bmuelle21  @MartzMimic Yeah, 10 bucks would have been a 30% more than what I was paying. Apply that to everyone and now you're talking about some noticeable jack. 
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:11:39
 @jdstorm  @Jooseppi  @TC_42 I don't think Drummond would be a terrible get if we could move Perkins. Drummond should be a classic center, and we would likely develop him to be a rebound/defending dynamo much more than a scorer. If he does develop at least into a strong defender, we could work around the PF spot (KD and Collison already could fill most of the minutes).   His athleticism also means he would be an ideal C in the smallball lineup, thus not giving up rebounding/post defense when surrounded by at least 3 elite scorers.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 22:10:06
What about our TV deal. Half the damn state was watching the games in the playoffs. Obviously that'll drop off alot in the regular season but still, won't there be some carryover? No reason that the same 3-5 commercials for oil companies and the newspaper should run during every commercial break on FSOK. 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 22:06:17
 @Jooseppi  @TC_42 if the thunders time frame is Forever under a sustainable team building model drummond should be fine
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 22:05:59
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21 A relevant point for sure. Basically I believe our bigs cost us that series by virtue of their failure to make Miami pay for playing that small lineup. Both scoring and on the glass. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:03:41
 @Old Man Game  @MartzMimic or instead of 10 bucks every seat raise the price's by percentage...that way people in loud city aren't getting a 100% increase and you make more money from the higher priced seats
jdstorm
2012-06-27 22:05:00
 @dwil4d10  @okcjim  Ibaka's agent will show you the 11/11 26pt game as what he could be if given more touches/ a bigger role
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 22:03:29
 @jdstorm  @okcjim  Most of those guys are scoring you points and bringing down rebounds...Ibaka gives you blocked shots and help defense...that's why I'm in the 6-9 max for him and that's pushing it...if he wants more...he's on bath salts...
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:03:23
 @Old Man Game  @MartzMimic  @bmuelle21 It would seem the biggest increase could come from the dedicated box and floor seats. We just made the finals, we are going to be all over national television next year. The team could probably haul in a lot more money by justifiably increasing the cost of the luxury seats.
Bryson
2012-06-27 22:01:26
 @TC_42 Yeah, I heard him on Simmons' podcast. That was probably the only 20 seconds they talked positively about him, then 5 minutes of bashing. He isn't worth the risk. 
marcus_pz
2012-06-27 22:00:41
 @Bryson   @TC_42 this
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 22:01:00
 @MartzMimic  @Old  @bmuelle21 Okay how about 10 bucks then. An extra 8 million isn't chump change even by NBA standards. 
TC_42
2012-06-27 21:59:39
 @Bryson  Chad Ford:    "He's very young, has the best NBA body/athleticism in a big man we've seen since Dwight Howard and at the very minimum should be able to rebound and block shots at the NBA level. He's not a bad kid. He just doesn't know that he has to work at this to get great. But many of these players don't know that. If he gets with the right team and mentor and dedicates himself to becoming a good NBA player — he could do exactly what Dwight does and start dunking over everyone. Dwight is the only player in the NBA with his physical abilities."
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:59:02
 @EatSleepThunder  @Old Man Game  @TC_42 To be honest, if Drummond was there at 9, the Pistons wouldn't trade the pick. They are in full rebuild mode, and the chance of Drummond be a star C next to Monroe is too enticing.   Though honestly, I think if any organization can get the best out of Drummond, it's ours. We have the culture to force him to work hard, and the patience and teachers to impart the skills he needs. I can't say he would definitely be the next Dwight, but even Dwight was considered a risk when he was drafted.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:58:57
 @EatSleepThunder  @TC_42 PRetty sad when a big who could catch would be a step up offensively for us. 
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:58:57
 @Old Man Game  @Daniel Plainview  That goes with the arguement that you can alway people that can score...it's harder to find quality big men...I still say we need to move Perk...I wonder how low Harden is really willing to go on his contract...?
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:58:20
 @Keith00 While he may not be Scottie Pippen, I hink youre undervaluing him
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:58:39
 @MartzMimic  @Old  @bmuelle21 yea i kinda figured it wouldn't be enough lol
MartzMimic
2012-06-27 21:57:49
@Old Man Game @bmuelle21 While I support the idea, that would only bring in about $4 million per year.
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:56:47
 @Old Man Game  @bmuelle21 Think about what would have happened to Miami if our bigs weren't such lackluster rebounders? Would Miami have been able to stomach staying small if we were pulling down 20 offensive rebounds? Perk has been a very poor rebounder for us overall. Ibaka has been very mediocre as well. If we had just Dwight's rebounding (literally forget the rest), we would have destroyed Miami on the boards and forced them to adjust their lineups.
Bryson
2012-06-27 21:56:46
 @TC_42 Andre Drummond is borderline mentally handicapped & has the worst work ethic on the planet. He is a bigger diva and worse team mate than Kobe Bryant. His intangibles are absolute trash. He isn't worth it. At all. 
EatSleepThunder
2012-06-27 21:56:23
 @Old Man Game  @TC_42 The big question: "Can he catch the ball?"
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:55:13
 @TC_42 Can he catch and finish in traffic?
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:56:09
 @Old Man Game they are ridiculously cheap for NBA standard right now...i sit lower level for only $41 per seat. With the waiting list over 2000 people now the demand is deff there.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 21:55:06
 @TC_42 I think Drummond is a long term project at best and a bust in all likelihood. Doesn't fit Thunder time frame.
TC_42
2012-06-27 21:54:22
I saw somewhere that the Pistons should trade the ninth pick for Ibaka.  The general consensus was that the Thunder could get more for Serge.  What if Drummond was available at 6 or 7 (where he is projected)?   Would you do it?  I just love his athleticism and touch around the rim.
Bryson
2012-06-27 21:53:04
I think Boston should have to give US a pick for giving us Perk and his grandma hip. 
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:52:49
 @bmuelle21 I'd pay more to keep this team. Why not? They always talk about the waiting list over a 1000 people long. Up those tickets $5 per game per seat. I think it would still be the best bargain in entertainment around OKC considering what you get. 
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:52:29
 @MrRaysian And peope on here are talking about not changing anything..while the team that beat us is planning on making a run for some vets (Allen/Nash)...while keeping their core..we can't expect to beat them with the same thing that we lost with...  
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:51:55
 @dwil4d10 harden*
marcus_pz
2012-06-27 21:52:19
 @MrRaysian completely agree.  im looking for a trade up (using Cole as a chip) to guarantee we have the dreamiest player in the draft....Monsieur Fournier   also dont forget we have Tibor coming in this year 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:51:31
I would of been up for an increase on season tickets if that meant we could of kept serge and harden lol    only if we were winning championships with them lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:50:18
 @MrRaysian Well never afford both James and Serge. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:50:10
 @dwil4d10 33.9% from 3...I wouldn't say is good from three, and that's with him coming on in the last 3rd of the season. He really struggled in the first half of the season.    I'm probably more ok if we get MKG simply because he's a better defender and if he can develop a jump shot he's basically a mini hard since he gets to the rim and draws fouls.
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:49:45
 @okcjim  @Keith00  @bmuelle21  We are going to have to move Perkins contract..too much and he's medical liability as he gets older...you get rid of Ibaka...that leaves us with Collison and Aldrich...? There are a lot of people that can score...not a lot of quality big men...
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:49:27
 @Keith00 Fair point on teh Pippen hyperbole, however, I havent heard alot of grandiose compariosons outside of Davis.  MKG does have a singular all around game that I think fits our squad, that is, if KD is playing teh 4 more, and I do believe MKG can play teh two as well
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:48:28
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21 Yeah but think about how much different that Miami series could have been if our bigs could have consistently caught and finished. From that standpoint upgrading the PF/C position would be major. 
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:47:37
@Keith00 @bmuelle21 We can't trade harden. Has to be Ibaka.
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:47:33
 @bmuelle21  And what happens if the league does decide to crack down on flopping...thats half of Hardens game...he's gotten better from 3...but he needs a mid-range shot.. because he's definitely not a great defender....Beal is just as good to me as Harden from 3...I haven't heard anythin else about him...MKG is a great defender...and we could always use more defense...I'm just throwing stuff out there...depends on MKG and how much he develops his offense...
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 21:46:36
 @jdstorm  @Bryson  that's a bit of a reach, we should chuck in out pick and we get Eric Gordon, that'll make it slightly fair
Bryson
2012-06-27 21:46:41
 @jdstorm Presti might hold out and make them throw in Eric Gordon.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:45:26
 @Bryson  The only way we give up Lazar is if New Orleans throws in pick 11 as well
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 21:45:04
i think everyone is overthinking this I highly doubt Presti would disassembe a team that made it to the finals, and i highly doubt we'll do anything significant on draft day besides the small trades to possibly move up 3-4 spots
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:43:35
 @Keith00 I never mentioned trading Serge
Bryson
2012-06-27 21:44:26
Lazar for Anthony Davis, Cole for MKG. Pull the trigger Sam...
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:43:29
@Keith00 @Daniel Plainview We would need to pick up a serviceable shot blocker if possible to play against the bigger teams but Collison defends as well or better than ibaka. The only thing I think we'd really miss is the shot blocking presence.
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:42:57
 @bmuelle21 I think any trade that gives up Harden takes a major step back. I think we COULD still make the Finals (although I think SA, Memphis, and LA could all legitimately beat us), but I also think the major reason we lost was Harden going silent. A rookie would do no better, and that puts us further from a championship.
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 21:41:05
 @Daniel Plainview  @dwil4d10 Harden is not going anywhere
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:42:56
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview I personally like Harrison barnes, He's a bigger and more athletic then MKG, he's lights out from 3. and was a reasonably good college defender.    He has problems creating his own shot, but playing most of his minutes with Harden and Maynor in the second unit he'd be fine
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:40:57
 @Daniel Plainview Pippen was a superstar on both ends. Never a tremendous shooter, but a 20+ ppg scorer when asked. Pippen also wasn't just paired with an elite scorer, he was paired with arguably the greatest scorer of all time. Pre-draft comparisons are all about exaggeration and hyperbole. If anyone really though MKG could be Pippen, there would be absolutely no question about who is the second pick.   I think the much much much more likely comparisons are Gerald Wallace and Andre Iguodola, and he has a lot of work to do just to get to Iguodola. Not everyone is going to pan out to their best case scenario. Is MKG worth Ibaka or Harden if he's just another Gerald Wallace, just a bigger Tony Allen, just a saner Metta World Peace? Those are great players in their own right, but strongly complimentary players. Philly's offense was horrible even with Iggy being an elite ballhandler and passer. Allen didn't become a starter until he was on a team with 4 other scorers. MWP has only ever been on good teams when asked only to defend.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:40:57
 @Daniel Plainview  @dwil4d10 For some reason I think Harden is more likely to stay than Serge. One thing I think he's closer with KD and the rest of the guys, second thing big men always seem to get overpaid more than guards. 
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:40:03
@Keith00 @jdstorm @okcjim He could play the 2 or 3. We would find more than 20 minutes a night for him. How many 4's would KD actually have to guard. None in our last 2 series.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:39:09
 @Daniel Plainview Favorite statement about MKG's motor, Draft Express' video scouting report says, "Relentless agression." 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:39:03
 @dwil4d10  @okcjim Here are some sallaries of big men in the nba   Al Horford 12.5m, Tyrus Thomas 7m, Desanga Diop 7m joakim noah 12m Tyson Chandler 13m Dwight 18m Nene 13m Blatche 6.4m Bogut 12m Bedrinis 9m D.Jordan 10m.  Bynum 15m P. Gasol 19m Darko 4.8m  Okafor 12.6m  Jefferson 14m Aldridge 12.6m Perk 7m   the lesson here. this year A lot of big guys are free agents, and NBA teams give big men dumb contracts  
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:38:56
what are everyone's thoughts on how we will do next year if we trade harden for MKG or Beal?    I think we will be waiting at least a year or two to make it back to the finals imo, I think it's unrealistic to expect a rookie to take the role of a 3rd scoring option, especially in the playoffs. Unless we can pick up someone else I guess
areayewhy
2012-06-27 21:38:38
 @Watson can the league just agree that roy belongs in phoenix. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:38:18
 @dwil4d10 If we move up 5-8 spots, I want a SG, cause Harden would be gone.  But we could get Barton there, or John Jenkins, Doron Lamb
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:34:11
Give up Harden to move up for MKG...take the 28th + Aldrich and/or Jackson and/or rights to Tibor and/or Cook to move up 5-8 spots and get Green/White/Nicholson....
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 21:37:42
 @dwil4d10 Liked for the second part about Green/White/Nicholson. Hey, whadaya know, having one of those guys might make Serge expendable. You could trade him next year before the deadline or do a sign and trade in the offseason for more pieces/picks. 
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:32:38
 @Daniel Plainview More time at the 4 says very little right now. I wouldn't want to trade our starting 4 for someone who cannot play the 4 himself. Miami is one team, and one series. If we had a better C, wouldn't have been forced to play small to match up in the first place. Moreover, James is the best player in the league. NO ONE is going to shut him down consistently.   MKG is a project. In time, he could be as good as Iguodola, but is that really going to push us over the top? If we can trade up that high using Ibaka, we should just take Robinson, who can defend the 3 and 4 as well, but who is already a better scorer and rebounder. Rather than adjusting to what Miami or another team is doing with small lineups, I would rather destroy them on the boards and in the paint and force them to adjust to us.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:32:18
"But if we are talking ceilings, I think his is Scottie Pippen. Pair him with an elite scorer, and I think he'll have a few rings by the time he retires."
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:31:21
On MKG:  June 26 Update: I'm a big Bradley Beal fan, but I think that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist could be the second-best player in the draft. He has more holes in his game than several of the top picks in the draft. But he's also the youngest player and hardest worker, and his flaws (shooting and ball-handling) are correctable. The things Kidd-Gilchrist has now (ultimate motor, toughness, the ability to defend multiple positions, leadership) are harder to duplicate. He just might be a Gerald Wallace clone, or he might be a saner version of Metta World Peace. But if we are talking ceilings, I think his is Scottie Pippen. Pair him with an elite scorer, and I think he'll have a few rings by the time he retires.   http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19651/michael-kidd-gilchrist
Tronchaser
2012-06-27 21:27:58
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar All of you are weird. :)
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:28:14
 @Keith00  @okcjim i was talking about finding a cheap backup PF to play 20 minutes a night.  That and a combination of reduced minutes For KD and Russ (36 apiece) during the regular season should provide enough floor time for the rookie to develop
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:27:44
 @jdstorm  @okcjim  Ibaka is getting more like 7-9 max...
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:27:50
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar haha nope i actually go to Okstate...but Abdelkader was pretty cool...i remember playing football with in my back yard lol
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:27:12
 @jdstorm  @okcjim  Westbrook and Durant are getting 12-15 a year...no way is Ibaka getting paid like them...you must be on bath salts...
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:26:27
 @bmuelle21  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar Are you a Sparty too? I went to school with Abdelkader, met him at a couple games. Either way, you have the right teams in mind.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:26:52
 @Keith00 I understand your points, but from what Ive heard, KD is going to be spending more time at teh 4, especially if were playing Miami again in the finals (Hypothetical.)  And I thought Sef played great all during teh playoffs but ultimately was totally overwhelmend by James.  MKG is bigger and and all around greta player.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:25:19
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar actually from iowa but became a lions and tigers fan awhile back because a guy who now plays on the redwings (Justin Abdelkader) use to live next door to me lol
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:24:39
 @okcjim  @dwil4d10  @Tequila If Max is 16, i could see ibaka getting 13-14 per
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:25:06
 @jdstorm  @okcjim Maybe not, but it is abjectly stupid to pick a player 2nd overall with the intent for him only to play when we are going small for 20 minutes per game.   Also, 30 mpg is starter territory. I would say it's pretty hard to find a quality PF cheap who can play 30 mpg.
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:23:53
@dwil4d10 @Tequila Ibaka won't be much cheaper. Harden already said he'd take less to stay and Jordan got what 10+? Ibaka will get more than Jordan.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:23:09
 @Keith00  @okcjim It's not that hard to find a reserve/backup PF good for 20-30 minutes a night
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:23:31
 @Daniel Plainview  @bmuelle21  @Grolgar More Michigan dwellers in the fold? I love it.
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:22:23
 @okcjim  @Keith00 But trading Ibaka for him only makes sense if we play KD at the 4 full time. That may be the case as KD enters the later stages of his career, but I can't see us making that switch when KD still struggles just to play against physical SFs.
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:21:06
@bmuelle21 @Keith00 It will only be a good deal if we can deal Ibaka for him. We need Hardens offense.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:19:45
 @Keith00  @okcjim  @justin_mia i'm all up for that lol
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:19:58
@Keith00 He wouldn't be a 4 he would be a 3 when KD was playing the 4.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:20:45
 @bmuelle21  @Grolgar Those is my teams too!  Im from FLint/Lansing
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:19:12
 @jdstorm http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8101352/2012-nba-draft-draft-nears-trades-shuffle-top-picks
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:19:08
 @bmuelle21  @okcjim  @justin_mia I think what Justin is getting at is that Beal is a top 4 pick, and we Presti may be finding a way to swing a top 4 pick for Ibaka. In that instance, this Beal stuff is a smokescreen. If we trade Ibaka to get into the top 4, we'll be picking up Robinson.
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:15:42
 @Tequila or Failure  @Keith00 But that's kind of the issue. Beal is not as good as Harden now, so we would be a worse team next year with him. It gives us a better chance to win it all by keeping Harden next year (before his extension kicks in), then trading him for a Beal level talent in 2014 (perhaps after we are already champions). To be honest, Beal is not a once every 5 years level talent. He's good, don't get me wrong, but Turner/Evans/Harden/Mayo/Gordon were all similarly or more highly rated SGs in just the last 4 drafts. Beal isn't now or bust, in all likelihood there will be a similarly rated SG in 2013.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:12:30
 @Keith00  @okcjim If MKG would develop a consistent jump shot I would be all over trading Harden for MKG because he already has a similar game minus the jump shooting (draws a ton of fouls, 50% of total shots at the rim).   with that being said there is no guarantee that you will improve his shooting enough to get to the level of hardens, and imo it's not going to happen.
Lost Ones
2012-06-27 21:09:33
 @justin_mia hopefully he does so everyone here can be sad send us bismack and we got a deal.
Keith00
2012-06-27 21:10:07
 @okcjim MKG would be vastly undersized as a PF. He is incredibly athletic, but he has Jeff Green-esque size. We all know how that worked out, and Green was no athletic slouch.   MKG is being highly overrated for our team because of his work ethic. But that doesn't change his complete lack of offensive game. We've simply cannot ask Russ/KD to carry more offensive load than they already are, which is exactly what would happen with MKG. It's NOT about talent. It's about actual fit on the team. MKG is going to be an inferior defender to Thabo in year one, and will likely never be the scorer that Harden is now. I'm sorry, but that doesn't make us any better.
Jo_Cro
2012-06-27 16:52:21
Like Royce said, a year from now for a similarly impactful wing, maybe. But this is giving up a little early on the core.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 16:53:31
I have a hard time believing that anything will come of this.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 16:54:30
Would Charlotte do Ibaka+Thabo? maybe throw in maynor or cook?   that would make more sense to me, we would need to start collison
areayewhy
2012-06-27 16:55:26
 @OBoymuzik they already have a shot blocker in charlotte
Thunderup_13
2012-06-27 16:59:48
I'd question exactly how smart Presti is if this happened. Seems really risky.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-27 17:00:07
 @OBoymuzik If we traded Serge for the #2 pick and drafted Beal, it would make more sense to just move KD to the 4 on a permanent basis. We were better with small ball anyway, and we could still go big if we had to.
DavidAdams
2012-06-27 17:00:13
Serge Ibaka has  much higher ceiling and value for the Thunder.  Harden is a very good player, but I do not see him as a superstar.  Beal is projected as a very capable pro and could be reggie miller or ray allen type.  OKC is not going to be able to re-sign Harden and Ibaka= Ship out Harden now and save the cap space.
areayewhy
2012-06-27 17:01:30
 @Thunderup_13 and if he does it and it works?
Thunderup_13
2012-06-27 17:03:20
 @areayewhy Then I like my crow medium well. lol but as Royce said this seems pretty early on breaking up the core, and to me shows that no effort was made to try and make it work
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:04:55
@DavidAdams Ibaka will never reach the level James is at now. Ever. And it's not close.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:05:49
@DavidAdams Beal only shot 34% from 3 last season, and Harden is already playing at an all star level. Top 5 shooting guard in the NBA.
areayewhy
2012-06-27 17:06:25
 @Thunderup_13 yup. I'd be afraid it would affect the team chemistry.  When you preach to the fans and players that we're all a big happy family, it kind of pisses players when you ship out a core player. 
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:06:29
This is all diversion. Presti would not let this information get out unless he wanted to. We're not going after Beal.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-27 17:07:03
 @OBoymuzik To be clear, I'm not advocating this, I'm just saying if Presti knows he'll HAVE to trade one of the two, then by all means try like a mad man to make sure it's Serge and not Harden.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:07:30
@Jax Raging Bile Duct KD can't play it all season. Too much of a beating.
okcjim
2012-06-27 17:08:02
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @OBoymuzik Michael Kidd gilchrest would be a better fit than Beal in this scenario.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 17:08:09
 @Grolgar  @DavidAdams That's kinda where I'm at with this too. I like Ibaka but to me it seems like it's easier to find a shot blocking forward than it is to find another Harden. I'm not sure if there's another shooting guard under 30 better than Harden in the entire league.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-27 17:08:26
 @Grolgar  I disagree. Dirk does it every year, and we can go big when we play a team that is heavy on post players. Perk+Nick+Cole will still be there.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:08:40
KD, Russ, and Harden are the core that we need to roll with. Everyone else, including Ibaka, is expendable.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-27 17:09:38
 @okcjim  And you could be right. I'm just saying that if you HAD too, you trade Serge, not Harden.
DXL
2012-06-27 17:09:40
Sell high on Ibaka. Serge, the #28 pick and next year's #1 pick for the Bobcats pick. Take Beal if you think he's going to be an All-Star talent.    
ninja_armadillo
2012-06-27 17:11:18
This won't happen. If we want to take away our chances of winning a title next year, this is a good move. Otherwise, presti is devising someway to get a good deal from this false information
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 17:11:20
I'm not buying the comparisons to ray allen with Beal. Beal really kind of struggled the first half to two thirds of the season last year only to shoot consistent the last 12ish games. Like Jooseppi said many people are writing his slow start off as just getting use to the offense. Honestly if we pick him up I can see him have a similar year to hardens first year. After that who know's if he progresses as well as harden. Personaly I don't think he will, Beal sucks at the Pick and Roll and thats a huge part to Harden's success and I don't think Beal has the shooting strength to overcome his poor pick and roll decision making
okcjim
2012-06-27 17:11:20
@Jax Raging Bile Duct I agree
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:12:24
I'm not buying the Beal hype. His numbers just don't add up... Not even 15 points per.
moriarty84
2012-06-27 17:12:44
 @Grolgar Our draft info is always leaked.  We knew days in advance we were trading up for Aldrich, we knew we were taking Harden (even with Rubio, Evans, Curry, etc. available), and we even knew they were interested in Mullens.  Granted, this wasn't specifically tied to the Thunder, but there were reports of Reggie Jackson receiving a promise from a team drafting late 1st last year (reports either said it came from the Thunder or the Heat).  The only diversion I can think of off the top of my head would be when Presti met with Rubio's lawyers (or something along those lines), but it was pretty common knowledge shortly after that the Thunder weren't taking Rubio.   None of that means I think we're trading Harden, just pointing out that our draft info usually leaks, or at least it has the last three years.  Also pointing out that it's kind of silly to supply misinformation regarding a player going top 3 when you pick 28.  Who knows though, maybe Presti and Harden's agent are currently involved in negotiations, and he's just using it as leverage to drive Harden's price down.  A "if you really want to stay here, take X... or you're on your way to Charlotte" kind of thing.  That actually probably makes the most sense.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 17:13:50
 @Grolgar 33.9% from 3 lol...yep the next ray allen for sure 
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 17:14:45
if we trade harden i'll be very skeptical, but if we were to somehow trade Serge and Thabo i think it could end up being brilliant....i've always thought that for harden to take seriously less money he would want to be a starter
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:15:11
@Jax Raging Bile Duct You're kidding, right?!? Dirk is waaaayyyy thicker than KD. Terrible comparison.
ninja_armadillo
2012-06-27 17:15:21
@Grolgar with the one and dones, teams are drafting for potential, not necessarily production. Mkg didn't put up numbers.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:16:08
NBA combine: Beal: "Hey Mr. Presti, what's up?" Presti: "Not much Bradley. How are you?" Beal. "I'm good man. Just working." Presti: "Well keep working hard. We think you are a good player. Maybe we'll pick you." Beal: "Ah man, that's cool. I'm flattered." A few days later... CBS: "THUNDER ARE TRADING HARDEN FOR THE NO. 2 PICK." A few days later.... Katz: "I'm going to tell some stories about run-of-the-mill happenings and focus on the Thunder because they are the most newsworthy team north of South Beach."
RossChaffin
2012-06-27 17:16:13
I think Presti is just doing Cho a solid here.  Driving up the price of the #2 pick for Cleveland.  Maybe it's on the order of "tell Beal that you want to pick him and if it gets reported, we'll sell you #31 for pennies on the dollar."  Then we use 31 and 28 to get to 24 and get Nicholson. 
supreme35
2012-06-27 17:16:29
All I have to say is Harden better stay.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:16:39
@ninja_armadillo MKG was practically on an NBA team. Totally different.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:17:34
@RossChaffin Good theory.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:17:56
 @Grolgar  @Jax Dirk is thicker but isn't exactly leagues better defending PFs than Durant is. It's pretty much a wash.   
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:19:57
 @RossChaffin I'd be minorly shocked if OKC and Charlotte had any discussion about it further than the daily chatter that goes on between all these teams.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:21:00
"would signal the Thunder franchise isn’t as well equipped to handle a big time roster and maybe we’d hoped. It would essentially say that the luxury tax is a major deterrent for the Thunder and anything even sniffing it means a massive blow up. That’s not a good thing for an organization that wants to build a core that can grow together. It basically says, 'Yep, we’re poor.'" Ugh, Royce. Don't even write that. So depressing.
cemitten
2012-06-27 17:23:16
just for the record, this will definitely happen. you know how I know? Remember all those rumors about taking Rubio and moving Russ to the two, and now Rubio is our badass point guard? Yep this is the same thing.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 17:23:30
If we trade Harden and draft Beal we aren't going to win the championship next year...I know some people on here say Harden is inconsistent at times but Beal is going to be much more inconsistent, especially in his rookie year.   Would we basically be asking him to be our third scoring option? 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:23:55
 @cemitten It sucks Rubio is injured so we can't see the awesome Thunder tandem of Rubio and Ibaka playing for Spain this summer.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:24:25
 @bmuelle21 Short of other moves, yes we would.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:24:55
 @bmuelle21 Short of other moves, yes, we would be asking him to be our No. 3 scorer.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 17:25:52
@bmuelle21 I will guarantee right now that Beal will never reach the level Harden is at now. We would take a huge step back with Beal.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 17:27:12
 @Jooseppi  @bmuelle21 serge could be our 3rd scorer, but he wouldn't average 18 like harden did...i think 12 ppg is possible for serge
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 17:27:13
 @Jooseppi lol idk about you but I see that being a disaster.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 17:29:07
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21 It would be a significant role jump for Serge. Turned into a significant option instead of being the pressure release he is suited for.  @bmuelle21 Yeah, it likely wouldn't turn out great.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 17:34:51
If management really thinks that we won't be able to keep Harden I would rather keep him this year and have one more legit chance to win the title with harden then to gamble on Beal. 
delolama
2012-06-27 17:39:42
They would amnesty Perk before trading Harden.  (or Presti knows something about harden we all don't)
InPrestiWeTrust
2012-06-27 17:40:32
I originally felt the same way, but after considering this is makes sense. Trading Harden for Beal gives the thunder enough cap room to sign (in addition to Ibaka) Maynor to a longer deal and another bench forward (personally hoping Jeff green if the deal goes through). At best, Beal will take a few years to reach Harden's current level, but a three headed bench should be able to replace the scoring of Harden and eliminate the risk that if Harden doesn't play well, the bench falls apart (as seen in the finals). Personally I think its a ploy to get harden to resign for less than his agent is probably asking for, showing their not unwilling to deal him, but I could work and potentially make the bench more potent if done right.  In Presti We Trust
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 17:44:42
 @InPrestiWeTrust all i have to say is we better hope that we sign another player because if we are relying on Beal to be the third scoring option for this team we aren't winning anything anytime soon. It's going to be a huge regress for next year's bid for a championship.   and there is no guarantee that Beal would even make it to Harden's level
ninja_armadillo
2012-06-27 17:46:03
@Grolgar from what I've seen, beal is athletic for his position. if he has the work ethic, he can evolve into a really good player. That being said, I definitely wouldn't trade up to get him
InPrestiWeTrust
2012-06-27 17:46:22
 @bmuelle21 Exactly, the only way this works is if we bring in another wing for the bench (the benchs biggest weakness last year). Otherwise its an unquestionable step back
propsizzle
2012-06-27 17:46:35
This whole post made me feel sick.
criznazy53
2012-06-27 17:48:18
he looks like a younger version of daequan cook.   Harden is way better.
Jokazc
2012-06-27 17:51:51
He just dont want go to bobcats P.S.Lithuania(valanciunas,kleiza) are playing friendly against Russia(shved,vorontsevic,kirilenko) now
neo12
2012-06-27 17:52:07
smokescreen
ninja_armadillo
2012-06-27 17:52:31
@criznazy53 more athletic than daequan. But yes, harden is much better
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 17:54:08
This team would trade Ibaka, and Amnesty Perk before we give up Harden. Why keep a Big man who at best will be a top 10 PF, and draft a guard who at best would be Harden from last tear pre-Allstar break? I rather trade Ibaka and keep arguably the 4thone best sg in the league right now.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 17:54:37
 @criznazy53 daequan was a top 15 player in his high school class, Russell Westbrook was ranked 101 in that class...it's all about how you develop
okcjim
2012-06-27 17:55:52
FORD: With Charlotte's no. 2 pick, I'm taking Michael Kidd-Gilchrist even though the Bobcats are probably trading this pick to Cleveland for no. 4 and no. 24. If they keep it, I think they're taking Thomas Robinson. If the Cavs get the pick, they're taking Bradley Beal. Maybe we could deal Ibaka and 28 for #4 and draft mkg here
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 17:57:29
 @okcjim i think it's being perceived as we just want beal, because beal is the only lottery pick that has admitted he talked to us, we could have very well talked to MKG too
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:04:07
I really think we should take Thabeet in this draft if we can.
Marty_McFly321
2012-06-27 18:05:44
If this happens I will personally punch Clay Bennett in the face for being a cheapskate.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:05:46
 @moriarty84 I don't think the thunders information is leaked. Presti seems to make the most obvious/safe choice most of the time. With all the information available about the draft, its not hard to guess the thunders strategy. Then its isn't about finding players that fit
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:06:54
 @jdstorm  @moriarty84 Westbrook and Harden were certainly nowhere near being considered the obvious or safe choice. Both picks were widely criticized. 
SoonerSpens
2012-06-27 18:08:50
If we deal Harden, there will be riots in the streets. I seriously doubt it happens.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:10:11
 @SoonerSpens I think people would angrily talk about it over their beers but I don't think we'd riot. Now, if Bieber signed for the Thunder...
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:10:31
 @SoonerSpens We'd definitely internet riot over it, though.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:14:57
 @Jooseppi  @moriarty84 Harden was the locked in number two pick on most draft sites for the majority of that year. His value decreased after a poor NCAA tournament. Even on Draft Day harden was the Safe No upside guy people expected to drop. Except Presti took him #3. Harden was originally criticized for being too safe. only a role player. then when he spent a year on the bench, the BUST talk started.   Russ Was considered a reach, but even he was a safe reach. Russ was thought to be the best defensive guard in the draft. He was projected outside the top 10 because his floor was a undersized lockdown 2 guard. Think current avery bradley
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 18:16:25
I understand the argument saying how westbrook and harden were heavy criticized picks and obviously those turned out well but here is my thought process on drafting Beal;   Back when we drafted westbrook or even harden we were an up and coming team AT BEST, and typically those types of teams take the risk on the development of young players. I know the whole salary cap/luxury tax situation plays into the whole thought process about trading harden for a new "up and coming" player but why risk it when this team was only 3 wins away from a championship.   I don't know about the rest of the Thunder fan base but winning one championship is hard enough. Why not roll with harden one more year if we think he won't stay and have a very legit shot at winning it next year? We will most likely be the favorite to win it all next year. If we trade harden for the #2 draft pick we seriously better sign a legit 3rd scoring option because relying on Beal or even Ibaka is going to be a disaster.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:17:33
 @bmuelle21 because this year the draft is loaded and you will get better value trading o the top
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:18:52
 @bmuelle21  because this year the draft is loaded and you will get better value trading to the top, then you would next year where the talent isn't as good. 
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 18:20:53
@jdstorm @bmuelle21 The talent in this draft is pretty over-rated. Aside from Davis not many of these guys are going to make a impact the first few uears of their careers.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:21:37
 @jdstorm  @moriarty84 Maybe I just remember 2008 differently, but Love was considered the safe pick for the Thunder heading into the draft process. And I recall tons of Buzz for Curry and Evans over Harden and there would have been more over Rubio if he hadn't make such a stink over where he would play. I don't and didn't view either of those picks as safe as the time. We might disagree on what aspects are considered safe for their draft position. Generally people don't look at a top 5 pick as a place you are drafting a role player, which is what both Harden and Westbrook were. Ideally you are drafting a superstar, an all-star or at least a good starter, and the alternatives were more widely considered "safe' in that direction.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 18:22:25
 @jdstorm so, i'd rather have a very legit chance to win the title next year then to hope that Beal or whoever we end up drafting progresses into where harden is currently to have that same shot again
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:22:37
The NBA draft isn't about who the best player is. Its about perceived value. OKC is doing their due diligence about  moving up in the draft but doesn't want to show its actual cards. Beal is a highly valued player who OKC clearly don't want. (he's not a thunder type guy) But since other teams value Beal as the number 2 pick, OKC can enquire about the picks Value, without tipping off who they actually like. out of ( MKG, Barnes, Robinson and Drummond)
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:23:21
 @jdstorm  @bmuelle21 Not loaded in the sense of high-impact players but certainly loaded in the sense of good to serviceable pros. Harden is the former.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:27:29
 @Jokazc Thanks, just tuned in.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:27:44
 @bmuelle21  I think KD, Russ and Harden are off the Board. Everyone else is available.     @ElMexiThunder  Drafts are always weak or overrated. These guys are rookies even the safest bets are pure potential at this point. the draft is about finding cost effective talent, the tradeoff is increased risk. If OKC trades up and hits on a top 10 pick they have 5 years at the top. with a rookie scale player. In this draft the talent is good and because of the lockout there is less risk.     
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:27:46
Harden for the second pick isn't enough imo 
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:28:05
Getting only the second pick as compensation isn't enough imo
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:30:19
Also, Presti better have a big free agency move coming up if Harden's gone, and I mean big
Koka_Da_Bauce
2012-06-27 18:32:16
 @jdstorm Beal doesn't really fit our current needs, but how exactly is he "not a thunder type guy"?  He's exactly a "thunder type guy"
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 18:34:46
 @jdstorm  @ElMexiThunder agree with you 100% my only problem with trading up for higher picks was trading harden to get it.
anonymous12345
2012-06-27 18:35:57
I said this when cbs reported 2 weeks ago: it makes no sense for Charlotte to do this trade even if OKC wanted it. Why would Charlotte trade for a guy who they'll have to pay right away? They would make that move only if they were ready to compete and there is no team further away from competing than Charlotte.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:36:10
Russia has some pretty great jerseys. http://en.rian.ru/images/17305/26/173052633.jpg
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:36:32
 @anonymous12345 It's also a matter of having a proven player
Lost Ones
2012-06-27 18:40:18
Even if we cut perkins we will be damn near touching the luxury or above 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:40:49
 @Koka_Da_Bauce He's not a thunder type guy because he's a 6'4 2 guard. Ideally he only has one possible position. This thunder roster has been built on the idea of versatility and that players should be able to guard multiple positions.     Beal is undersized, isn't a great scorer off the dribble, isn't a great passer and  is only a slightly above par 3pt threat.  
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:41:29
 @Jokazc Shved's a great cutter.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:41:58
 @anonymous12345 because any time you can get the best SG in the NBA for the next 10 years you have to do it.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:43:04
 @Jooseppi  @moriarty84 Thats why Presti is good at his job. When all Top 5 /tier 1 picks have Massive talent.  its why they're in the conversation. NBA GM's stuff up every year by falling in love with potential or tools. the knock on Harden was that he was unathletic.    Everybody Knew in 2008 that harden would be a Good shooter, a good passer and a great team mate. there were concerns about his size, and Athleticism. His NBA comparison was paul pierce
Lost Ones
2012-06-27 18:43:18
 @jdstorm  @Koka_Da_Bauce beal isnt a great shooter off the dribble really? http://youtu.be/ib8Clfreyak
anonymous12345
2012-06-27 18:44:40
cho would do the Presti like move of trading down with Cleveland and getting their 24th.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:44:51
 @jdstorm  @moriarty84 I hope it doesn't come off as me criticizing Presti. I'd rather have MKG and Robinson in this draft than any of the players that "play like superstars." 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:45:04
 @Lost Ones  @Koka_Da_Bauce Wait i think darko's chair wants to try and contest a shot
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:45:51
 @anonymous12345 If Charlotte has decided on Robinson it only makes sense. Wash. and Cleveland aren't taking him.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 18:46:14
 @anonymous12345 Charlotte needs someone to give the few fans in the stands hope and lure a few more. Bringing in the 6th man of the year who many people think would have been an All Star if he had gotten to start for a season would be just the ticket. Plus Charlotte has nothing in terms of payroll right now. Have you seen their team? 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:46:43
 @Old Man Game  @anonymous12345 KEMBA! BISMACK! GERALD!
anonymous12345
2012-06-27 18:46:43
And Harden is far from proven as a #1 option guy that they would have to give the max to after next season just to keep
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:48:01
 @jdstorm  @anonymous12345 I think that's definitely overreaching. Yes he has that potential but it's irresponsible to make that kind of statement imo.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 18:50:30
AK looks pretty good still.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 18:50:43
Any actual news that might impact the Thunder's draft tomorrow night as opposed to the dreams and mistaken impressions of an 18 year old? 
Watson
2012-06-27 18:51:04
Beal looks shorter than 6'3" on the court. I doubt this trade will happen, but if it does, that means Harden will be playing basketball 30 mins from my house :D
anonymous12345
2012-06-27 18:52:34
salary cap is pretty valuable. Look what Presti built by renting out their salary cap. Maynor, Ibaka, cook.. all guys they got because other teams needed salary cap room
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:52:58
 @dancassidy35  @anonymous12345 Why? The only SG's better in the NBA last year were Kobe, Wade and Ginoblii. Two, maybe three of those guys are on the downside of their careers, while harden is on the upside.  Harden has Legit Size. Will improve defensively with coaching and has a game thats sustainable long term
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:53:41
 @Lost Ones  @Koka_Da_Bauce Any NBA Player can hit shots in an empty Gym. or against summerleague level competition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKdqQI2WOk 
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:54:40
 @jdstorm  @anonymous12345 Gordon could be better, we'll see over the next year or so. Then you have to take the draft into consideration. I just think that it doesn't make sense to make that kind of a statement unless it's a Durant or LeBron-esque talent
jdstorm
2012-06-27 18:56:34
 @dancassidy35  @anonymous12345  Harden has Lebron/Durant level talent. I also personally think that gordon is overrated due to the market he plays in. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 18:57:14
 @jdstorm  "Harden has Lebron/Durant level talent."   lol
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 18:57:25
 @jdstorm  @anonymous12345 If you believe that he has that talent well then ok. I just don't see it.
C-Wil
2012-06-27 18:59:01
All I can say is.....WTF!
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:02:09
I prefer MKG
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:03:12
 @FF_pickups Harden was the most efficient scorer in the NBA not named Tyson Chandler last year and his degree of difficulty was much higher. Like Ginobli who might be better then Kobe, there is a stigma that clouds these two players because of their role.     Harden Played most of his minutes in the NBA finals matched up against lebron on D and double teams on offense. He will learn from this and get better. he's 22
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:03:36
 @jdstorm  @dancassidy35  @anonymous12345 I like Harden a lot but he's not close to that level. He's very good but Durant/LeBron are in a class of their own.
Lost Ones
2012-06-27 19:03:44
 @jdstorm  @FF_pickups How many shots did harden take in midrange?
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:04:35
 @Lost Ones  @jdstorm  @FF_pickups 1.1 a game. 
ILikePancakes
2012-06-27 19:05:06
yes yes yes yes yes   YES YES YES YES   please.
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:07:58
@jdstorm" Harden was the most efficient scorer in the NBA not named Tyson Chandler last year and his degree of difficulty was much higher. Like Ginobli who might be better then Kobe, there is a stigma that clouds these two players because of their role.     Harden Played most of his minutes in the NBA finals matched up against lebron on D and double teams on offense. He will learn from this and get better. he's 22"   Oh, that makes sense.  I thought you were saying something stupid like Harden has KD/LeBron level talent.  My mistake.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:08:24
 @Jooseppi  @dancassidy35  @anonymous12345 Well lets just agree to disagree. Even though Offensively I'm right. Defensively he needs work
okcjim
2012-06-27 19:08:35
@Daniel Plainview He fits much better.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:08:41
Its a financial decision.  I dont think we can keep Harden and Ibaka and Ibakas gonna cost less
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:09:26
 @okcjim  @Daniel Especially if KD plays more 4.  Hes so well rounded and everyone talks about his "it" factor.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:09:46
 @Daniel Plainview Why would Ibaka cost less? big men always get overpaid
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:10:22
Two ways of looking at this: the first is that it's Presti doing Cho a favor by driving up the price of the #2 pick to other teams (a lot easier for Cho to get value if he can tell other gms that he's been offered Harden). The second is that Cho is going balls out to grab Harden and Presti has to listen because he needs to figure out this cap situation. That said, I think Harden is worth a good deal more than the #2 straight up...
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 19:10:51
 @jdstorm  @Daniel Plainview Because Harden is a better player
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 19:11:31
 @SammyThunderer There aren't any other assets I'd want from Charlotte besides that pick. For me, its a no deal
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:11:37
 @SammyThunderer Where ya been dude, you never post here anymore? 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:11:44
 @jdstorm Ibaka has limitations on both sides of the ball and hardens bbIQ is infinitely superior
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:13:45
Now something Off topic is it just me, or if you were the cavs would you trade down with portland. something like Pick 4 and 24 or the two second round picks for pick 6 and 10. Take the falling/best available elite guy at 6, then draft Austin Rivers at 10
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:15:15
 @jdstorm  @dancassidy35  @anonymous12345 It's harder to be more efficient in a larger role. Harden had a ~20 usage for the regular season which is a good deal lower than LeBron and Durant. I think Harden can maintain high efficiency in a larger role (ideally the usage between him and Westbrook would balance out more, which would benefit both of them), but comparing his great effectiveness in his smaller role to Durant and LeBron's effectiveness in their much larger roles has to be taken in context. Harden had a .660 TS% on ~20 usage. Durant had .610 TS% and LeBron had .605, both on 30+ usage. 
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:15:32
 @dancassidy35 It could be something like the #2 this year and Charlotte's top 3 protected first next year. It'd be a really tough pill for me to swallow (I'd much MUCH rather just outright amnesty Perk next summer, but that may be a non-starter with ownership).  If it's Harden for the #2 outright, I'll destroy something.
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:16:07
 @SammyThunderer "That said, I think Harden is worth a good deal more than the #2 straight up..."   In a vacuum, it depends on the year.  When you take it in context, it's HIGHLY debatable.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:17:31
 @Old Man Game real life > online basketball life, but this rumor was too juicy for me to not drop in. I'm still semi-active on twitter.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:18:33
 @FF_pickups Well, yeah, obviously, the #2 in 2007 or 2003 was a good deal more valuable than the #2 this year.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:18:55
 @FF_pickups Also, requisite loldetroit
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:19:00
 @dancassidy35  @Daniel Plainview I know harden is a better player. But  Ibaka is going to get a huge offer because   1. ibaka is a big and they always get overpaid. eg deandre jordan. 2 ibaka is the best shot blocker in the NBA. 3 he's a big who hits his free throws, and that matters.  4. he's gotten better every year and now has a reliable 15footer 5. he's the best shotblocker in the NBA 6. He's really Tall 7. he's a starter
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:19:32
I there is a real possibility that either Harden or Ibaka isn't on this roster by tomorrow night.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:20:02
 @jdstorm I wouldn't draft Austin Rivers in the lottery, and if I'm the Cavs, I'm playing the odds by sticking with the No. 4 if not trading with Charlotte to secure the No. 2.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:21:02
 sammythunderer Meh. Real life's overrated. Good to see you checking in. 
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:22:07
 @FF_pickups Nope. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:22:45
And if this trade goes  down, do we keep the 28?
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:22:57
 @SammyThunderer  The 2nd best player in 2003,  2005,2006, 2007 and  2008 all better than Harden.  Jury still out on 9-11
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 19:23:05
 @Daniel Plainview We sure as hell better
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:24:12
 @FF_pickups  @SammyThunderer I'l take Harden over thabeet any day and twice on sundays
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:24:40
 @jdstorm  @FF_pickups  @SammyThunderer He's referring to the second best player, not the second pick.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:25:12
 @FF_pickups The second best player in those years, sure, but how often were those players picked second? There's a huge amount of risk when the player you're drafting second isn't Kevin Durant.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:25:12
 @Jooseppi  @jdstorm  @FF_pickups  @SammyThunderer Yeah but you aren't guaranteed the second best player. Sometimes you just end up with the wasted second pick.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:25:25
 @Jooseppi  @jdstorm  @FF_pickups  @SammyThunderer that's also not fair. The 2nd best player is very rarely the 2nd pick.
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:25:36
 @Jooseppi  @jdstorm  @SammyThunderer  Yep, last time I checked, Presti hasn't drafted any Thabeet's yet.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:25:39
 @Daniel Plainview Ibaka is really tall.  Samuel Dalembert made 12 million a year at one stage. Ibaka is better then dalembert, with none of the character issues. He's gonna get Paid
ILikePancakes
2012-06-27 19:25:51
One thing's for certain: Draft is going to be entertaining.
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:26:40
 @Jooseppi  @jdstorm  @SammyThunderer  It's fair when we are talking about Presti.  Westbrook and Harden weren't supposed to be picked there, both were widely questioned.  Turns out he knows what he's doing.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:27:56
I wonder if Orlando would be interested in Ibaka. I could be amenable to something like Houston's #12 + other assets in a multi way trade, especially if Henson is still on the board there.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:27:56
 @Jooseppi Ever Since Rivers measured out at 6'5 I've been a huge fan. worst case, He's Jamal Crawford, and since you already have Kyrie Irving its a non issue
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:28:24
 @Old Man Game   It's risk vs. reward.  The risk is that you get a bad pick, the reward is that you may have an even better player but the bigger reward is that you save a ton of cap space.  You guys just don't understand how valuable cap space is.  Presti does, it's how he built our team.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:28:58
 @SammyThunderer Can you imagine the shot blocking numbers Dwight and Ibaka would rack up together. It'd be crazy. 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:29:52
 @SammyThunderer I'd rather steal another backup 4/ shotblocker. with KD playing more PF next year. If Ibaka's going to get traded It better be for a top tier guy like MKG, robinson or barnes
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:30:01
 @Old Man Game  If you go to 82games.com and look at the EV of the second overall pick, it's higher than Harden and costs 8 m/yr less.  I'm just saying.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:30:20
 @FF_pickups But the Thunder won't be playing with any cap space short of a Westbrook or Durant trade/amnesty. Do you mean salary numbers in relation luxury tax?
okcjim
2012-06-27 19:30:57
@Daniel Plainview @Daniel If we can give up Ibaka for him that would be ideal. Keep our offense in tact and add mkg for defense (Lebron) and fix the cap.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:31:06
 @FF_pickups It would be pretty crazy if Presti did it and managed to get someone as good or better. The rest of the league would be so pissed. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:31:39
 @Old Man Game   But you guaranteed that Ibaka would still be on the roster tomorrow night.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:31:42
 @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi  @jdstorm Presti isn't infallible. Just because prior high risk propositions have turned out well for us is by no means a guarantee of future success. Historically, teams picking second have picked the BPA about 23% of the time according to this study http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2362   Of course cap space is valuable, but so too is obtaining ultra rare talent of Harden's calibre.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:32:36
 @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi  @jdstorm  @SammyThunderer True but it still makes no sense to give up Harden to do it. Let's say for example that we know for a fact that Sullinger is going to end up being the 2nd best player in this draft, but we also know he probably isn't going in the lottery and that he definitely isn't going in the top 5. If OKC were to trade up to #2 and take him and he ends up great does that make it a good deal? Not necessarily because they could have given up less to get him later in the draft.
EatSleepThunder
2012-06-27 19:32:39
This team just made the nba finals... I doubt any of these rumors are going to actually happen.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:33:06
 @Old Man Game If Houston deals Ibaka to Orlando, that's a guarantee Dwight is in Houston. Houston's been wheeling and dealing like crazy to try to get a package together that Orlando will bite on.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:33:20
Presti with the deal of the Centuary. Perk, Ibaka and Cook for Dwight. The orlando GM's Ex thunder. Make this happen
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:33:43
 @jdstorm Shortest GM reign ever.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:33:46
 @jdstorm I'd absolutely love Robinson, but I think his draft position is out of reach of Ibaka's trade value.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:34:05
 @SammyThunderer Not a fan of Henson and this is why: I only saw him play for about 5 seconds and he acted like a thug against some small white dude.  Other than that, I know nothing of his game
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:34:34
grab MKG at 2 and Will barton or John Jenkins or Sullinger at 28  
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:34:35
 @Jooseppi Why its actually not that bad a deal for Orlando
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:34:40
I'd prefer a more modest move like some combination of Eric Maynor, Cole Aldrich, the rights to Tibor Pleiss or Latavious Williams and our 28th pick to move up to the mid to late teens. Then we could get Royce White without having to explode our core. 
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:35:28
 @FF_pickups I'm just saying if it did happen. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:35:39
 @jdstorm Yes it is.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:35:39
 @Daniel Plainview  @SammyThunderer I don't have a ton of faith in Henson either. Not sure he'll be anything but a career backup (I know that's easy for us to say about any of these guys)
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:35:53
 @SammyThunderer  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi  @jdstorm Yes, we drafted Cole at 11, and lost Blesdoe and another because of it
Crow
2012-06-27 19:36:02
Beal seems overrated to me. I would not make a massive move to get him. It may turn out that only 1-2 guards should  go in the top 10 this season. The performance winners won't include Austin Rivers.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:36:06
 @Old Man Game It depends Do you View Ibaka as Core? Because brooks only played him 26 minutes a night in the playoffs. is 26 minutes core or a replaceable reserve?
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:36:30
 @SammyThunderer   It may appear as a 23% chance but that's why Presti has to do his homework.  I trust him a lot more than the scrubs who post on this forum or the experts who work for ESPN or 90% of the other GM's in the NBA.  Sorry, if he does the trade, I know his evaluation is better than yours.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:36:41
 @Jooseppi Name a better piece orlando could get back then Ibaka
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 19:36:46
 @jdstorm  @Old Man Game He use to not allow Harden to close games also
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:37:00
 @Daniel Plainview   I still have VERY high hopes for Cole.  I think he's going to be good.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:37:21
 @Old Man Game That does nothing to settle the cap situation. In fact, it greatly weakens out position in that regard since Cole, Lat, and Pleiss are all potential cheap rotation filler in the future, and we're gonna need all the cheap productive assets we can find.
ReignOfSerge
2012-06-27 19:37:41
I'm sure Sam will listen to any offers out there. Due Dilligence. But trade Harden or Ibaka? Don't see that happening.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:38:02
 @Daniel Plainview  @SammyThunderer  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi Don't confuse Cole's lack of playing time with lack of ability
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:38:13
ANd why would Charlotte want to pay Harden big money when their gonna pay Gordon that at the 2?
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:38:16
 @Daniel Plainview  What's more is there is a risk analysis involved here.  It may not work out but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision.  He's got to make the decision based off of the knowledge that he has right now.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:38:29
 @SammyThunderer And the guy you'd pick with the higher pick wouldn't be? 
Tronchaser
2012-06-27 19:38:34
 @Daniel Plainview Logic. I like it.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:38:46
 @Daniel Plainview gordon as 6th man or make another trade
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:38:49
 @jdstorm A better single piece or a better package? Orlando gets a young, defensive oriented big man who is a RFA next summer, a hobbled center on an unfriendly contract and a 3-point "specialist" who specialized his way into 34 percent from 3 and 36 percent overall. And they don't get rid of Turkoglu's contract. How does that in any way approach a good deal?
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:39:15
 @FF_pickups If Presti does this deal, make no mistake: it is a strictly financial-based decision. You don't deal Harden because you think Beal is going to be better.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:40:07
 @Old Man Game  @SammyThunderer He wouldn't be because a top 10 pick is owed approx 3 million per year, while a late first rounder is owed 1 million. All roster spots still have to be filled
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:40:14
 @Daniel Plainview Gordon is only there for 2 years and it's not like the Cats are worried about getting to the salary cap.  They could accommodate both for 2 years or even trade Gordon next year. 
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:40:24
 @Old Man Game Cole + Lat + Pleiss = 3 pieces, White = 1 piece.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:40:25
 @jdstorm He's an inefficient chucker who doesn't pass, doesn't play D and doesn't have range.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:40:49
 @Daniel Plainview Gordon?
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:41:00
 @SammyThunderer I said some combination, not all of them. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:41:13
Those guys on the Sportsanimal are so uninformed.  They were discussing how we should package Sefolosha, Aldrich and the 28th pick for the #2 overall pick.  Then they decided that that was just too much to give up and we shouldn't do it.  smh
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:41:33
 @Daniel Plainview Oh. Ben. I was thinking about Eric. Yeah, you don't NOT deal for Harden because you have Eric Gordon, lol.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:41:35
 @SammyThunderer Ben Gordon
C-Wil
2012-06-27 19:41:40
 @FF_pickups lmao comedy at its finest. 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:41:47
 @Jooseppi I think the NBA is about Getting/Having Elite Talent. Ibaka is that and he's 22. 3 mid first round picks are just tickets to nowhere if you don't have elite guys
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:41:55
 @FF_pickups Holy crap. That takes the cake. 
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:42:02
 @Daniel Plainview Oh. Ben. I was thinking about Eric. Yeah, you don't NOT deal for Harden because you have Ben Gordon, lol.
Crow
2012-06-27 19:42:05
 @SammyThunderer I think Hennigan trades or drops just about the entire Magic roster in the next 1-2.5 years. He already fired most of th e basketball staff. Like Presti he will put a premium on making just about everything his pick.   Hennigan probably trades Ryan Anderson. Wonder what he gets for him. terrible in 2 or 3 of his 3 playoff appearances.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:42:09
 @FF_pickups ha I was listening to that same segment and I'm pretty sure there wasn't an intelligent thing said the entire time
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:42:17
 @FF_pickups haha
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:42:50
 @Crow  The one thing I would say is that given the M.O. of the Thunder, if they are trying to move up, they are sending out false signals.  They haven't tipped off a draft pick since Durant.
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:43:04
 @jdstorm  @SammyThunderer I said mid to late teens, not top 10. 
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:43:22
 @FF_pickups  Sefolosha, Aldrich, and the 28th wouldn't even get us the 23rd pick, let alone the 2nd overall. 
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:43:52
 @Old Man Game In any case where we are trading multiple pieces for 1 piece, we are decreasing the total number of cheap potential future role players.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:44:21
 @jdstorm They could get Ibaka. They also could get Bynum if they wanted....
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:45:12
 @SammyThunderer   We are fine for next year and then we start getting the one year free agent guys looking to chase a ring type. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:45:59
 @Crow I prefer Kidd-Gilchrist
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:46:00
 @SammyThunderer Depends on what you think the value of Cole and these guys are? Personally I think it's de minimis.  
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:46:28
 @Crow Sign Jamal Crawford
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:46:33
 @Jooseppi   They can't get Bynum unless Howard extends.
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:46:54
 @FF_pickups vet one year free agent types still cost a few mil a piece. Every million saved at this point is a million closer to staying under the tax.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-27 19:46:59
 @Daniel Plainview Because they're not getting Harden, they're getting Serge.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:47:19
 @FF_pickups We're talking about a Ibaka, Perkins, Cook trade. I think we can take some liberties talking about alternatives. 
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:47:39
 @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi  Bynum cares only about money, he'd extend in a heart beat if he was going to win 20+ in one of those seasons.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:48:03
 @Jooseppi Dealing For Bynum requires orlando to relive the Shaq trade, Probably not something that they want to do. Never mind bynum's injury issues.   Perk, Ibaka is one of the better defensive front courts in the NBA. however since neither of them can score, orlando will be free to tank next year, where All of Orlando's bad contracts will be a year closer to expiring
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:49:03
 @SammyThunderer  lol, first, of course it's a financial decision.  Who said it wasn't.  Second, I don't think Beal is the real target.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:49:04
 @jdstorm You really think an Ibaka trade for them is better than a Bynum trade because it would be trading with the Lakers and that's tough mentally for them to deal with?
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:49:53
 @jdstorm  Trading for Dwight goes into trading Westbrook territory. Even a trade consisted of Harden/Ibaka/Perk for Davis/Howard would be bad. Even if by any chance Orlando wanted to make a trade like that, i think the NBA wouldn't let it happen, let alone a trade where we end up keeping a Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Howard trade. That core would end up winning the next 5 championships 
EatSleepThunder
2012-06-27 19:50:05
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8104451/2012-nba-draft-charlotte-bobcats-no-2-pick-listening-all-offers "General manager Rich Cho says it will take "something enticing" for the Bobcats to trade away the No. 2 overall pick in the NBA draft." How about lazar?  
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:50:25
If we happen to grab the no 2, take MKG, sign Jamal Crawford
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:50:28
 @EatSleepThunder The human intangible. 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:50:53
 @SammyThunderer I think washington would do ibaka for pick 3, and i wouldn't mind throwing in a draft pick to get it done. Ibaka is definitely worth pick 5,   Especially if someone takes beal in the top 4. Worse case is a direct trade of Ibaka for Drummond 
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:51:09
 @Jooseppi  @jdstorm  LOL
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:51:26
 @Daniel Plainview  Kinda like. 
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:51:50
 @Daniel Plainview oh god, please no Jamal Crawford. KD would get like one touch every ten possessions in a RW/Crawford lineup.
KS Storm Chaser
2012-06-27 19:52:04
 @Daniel Plainview Absolutely take MKG if you grab the 2nd pick. He's a sane Ron Artest. Super competitor, can guard multiple positions, athletic freak.   And no to Jamal Crawford.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:52:44
 @Daniel Plainview  I rather us shoot for Ray Allen if thats the case. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:52:54
 @Jooseppi "We're talking about a Ibaka, Perkins, Cook trade. I think we can take some liberties talking about alternatives."   If Howard will extend then there are only two guys in the league that you CAN'T get.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:52:56
 @KS Storm Chaser  @Daniel Plainview why trade up to 2 to get MKG if you could get him at 4 though? The less you have to give up the better
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:53:37
 @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi  Like? Lebron/KD 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:53:53
 @Jooseppi you really think bynum will be this healthy again, especially on a bad team?    Also owners do dumb stuff, remember the Nets traded pick 6 for gerard wallace, Michael Heisley made memphis draft thabeet 2nd overall, ect
FF_pickups
2012-06-27 19:53:54
 @ElMexiThunder  "Bynum cares only about money, he'd extend in a heart beat if he was going to win 20+ in one of those seasons."   Try to keep up, we're talking about Howard extending, not Bynum. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:53:56
 @KS Storm Chaser Haha, Sane Ron Artest.  Jamal would be our 6th man, and a cover for  loss iperimeter shooting we lose with Harden and dont gain with Gilchrist
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:54:28
 @FF_pickups  Misread the comment. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:54:59
 @jdstorm OK, so you admit it is dumb then?
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 19:55:09
 @jdstorm  @Jooseppi  Orlando has the Thunders ex assistant GM, i really doubt he'll let them do such a lop sided trade. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:55:09
 @northernthunder  @KS Storm Chaser Only Charlottes offering
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 19:56:21
 @Daniel Plainview Let's not stop there. Let's sign Tyreke and Salmons and bring Marbury back from China.
northernthunder
2012-06-27 19:56:32
 @Daniel Plainview  @KS Storm Chaser I think if you come calling with the right pieces pretty much everyone except NOLA would listen.
Bryson
2012-06-27 19:57:12
I would hands down rather have MKG than Bradly Beal...imagine Kidd-Gilchrist learning from Durant. 
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 19:57:18
 @Jooseppi  @Daniel Plainview AI wants to come out of retirement.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 19:57:24
And Im not Sold that Beal has such a higher value than 3-5 otehr shooting guards that could be had after 12
Old Man Game
2012-06-27 19:58:00
 @Bryson  Imagine him learning from Thabo. That kid has the length to be an elite defender. 
Crow
2012-06-27 19:58:16
 @Grolgar will thunder spend in the top ten in 2 years? doubt it
jdstorm
2012-06-27 19:58:24
 @Jooseppi I'm admitting that not wanting bynum because it would be trading dwight to LA is somewhat Irrational in a basketball sense, however relating to Fans is an important part of the nba buisness model.   Imagine if in 15 years miami had a trade to get Cleveland's All world player, Even if the deal made partial sense could the Cavs do that trade without cleveland burning again?
moriarty84
2012-06-27 19:58:49
 @SammyThunderer  @Jooseppi  @Daniel Plainview Steve Francis put on a few, right?  Maybe he can get some minutes at the 4?
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:00:15
 @jdstorm Yes, if it was a good basketball decision. You realize that short of guys who are untradeable (LeBron/KD, Kobe because of his contract), Orlando could probably get any single player they wanted in the league, right? As long as they could get the numbers to work.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:00:48
 @moriarty84  @SammyThunderer  @Daniel Plainview Nah we can put Hansbrough at the 4.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:03:41
 @Jooseppi If that were true they would have done it already. GM's know orlando is in a bad way, and wont offer anything big if they can get him for less. This in turn is deflating dwights trade  value rather then inflating it auction style, with GMs offering the minimum acceptable offer and lowering it after they hear what's being offered by others
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:05:16
 @Jooseppi Innefficent or not, somebody still has to score. See the 2012 charlotte bobcats 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:05:19
 @jdstorm They haven't traded him because they've deluded themselves into thinking he is going to extend and they want to get rid of Turkoglu if they do in fact trade him.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:06:13
 @jdstorm So it's a good idea to use high picks on bad players because you need somebody to score points?
ReignOfSerge
2012-06-27 20:06:35
 @jdstorm  Right now i'd say they're both core players. That's always subject to change depending on the financial end of things, but trading an asset like Harden or Ibaka (who are both still rapidly improving) right now and rolling the dice on what may prove to be a lateral move talent wise at best and could also screw up the chemistry doesn't strike me as a smart move. And i trust Presti to make smart moves. There will be a time very soon when the cap and Luxury tax issues may force his hand but i don't think we're quite there yet.
okcjim
2012-06-27 20:06:40
@Old Man Game @Bryson I like the idea of him on lebron and Thabo on Wade.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:07:35
 @Jooseppi Pick 10 is hardly a high pick, and all rookies are bad comparatively. Thats what coaching and training is for.
cemitten
2012-06-27 20:07:54
Houston Rockets fans must be having a hell of a time.  It's so fun when your team wheels and deals like this.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:08:57
 @Daniel Plainview  @KS Storm Chaser Crawford shot 38 percent from the floor and 30 percent from 3 last year (career 40 percent and 34 respectively). He could cover for Lazar.
Amuro
2012-06-27 20:10:28
Hope this is still just a rumor and not true.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:10:34
 @jdstorm That's some messed up logic.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:10:49
 @Jooseppi Orlando cant trade Dwight for cents on the dollar and appease their fans, so he either has to leave, making the team the victim, or they have to get a lot back.    Other NBA teams know this and aren't offering enough to make it worth Orlando's time.    As for Bynum. He has a significant injury history that might be a stay away
SammyThunderer
2012-06-27 20:10:52
If we traded Ibaka for MKG, the idea of ultra small Westbrook, Maynor, Harden, MKG, Durant lineups makes me drool a little.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:11:34
 @ElMexiThunder The NBA can't block this trade, they don't own OKC like they did New Orleans
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:12:01
 @SammyThunderer Misleading stat alert: Durant had a 50 PER at center last season.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:12:50
 @jdstorm Ibaka is cents on the dollar....
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:13:13
 @Jooseppi Its statistically proven. A top 5 pick gets you a tier 1/possible star, Picks up to 15 get you a role player/starter if your lucky. Anything further than that is a total crapshoot
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:14:19
 @jdstorm What's that proving? if anything, that confirms 10 is a high pick. And it confirms there are different tiers of rookies, but you rationale for drafting Rivers was essentially that all rookies are bad and it doesn't matter. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:17:55
You think we can convince Yi Jianlian to sign here? He's shot really well (40 percent) for his career and he is 7-feet tall! Wow! Think we could offer him $8 mil a year? Would be a steal.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:22:29
 @Jooseppi All rookies are bad, However Drafting a rookie is like restoring a car. Some are better models then others. Others have big engines or wheels but nothing else, and if you get to the scrapyard after all the good parts are gone, you have nothing.    My Logic is this. In any given draft there are roughly 10 guys worth having and GM's make mistakes.  A top 5 is a high pick top 10 is a safe pick top 15 is an acceptable pick.    Every player drafted after that will develop specific skills based on coaching, system and opportunity. Since good generally teams don't give minutes to develop these picks they are only valuable as roster fillers
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:23:17
 @Jooseppi Cleveland has a specific role for rivers, Just like harden has one here,  which makes him a worth wile pick
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:26:01
 @jdstorm What role is that, exactly? What do you envision him doing? Where is his offense coming from? Spot ups? Slashing?
dancassidy35
2012-06-27 20:26:19
Great quote from Royce from three years ago.    "...be weary of getting caught up in the Myth of the Next. So when we say we see Manu Ginobili in James Harden, it’s probably unlikely we’ll see it three years from now."   http://dailythunder.com/2009/06/the-trap-and-myth-of-the-next/
northernthunder
2012-06-27 20:27:06
 @Jooseppi I heard he's kind of a diva though..he only wants to sign with a team that will accommodate his posse of chairs 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:28:35
 @Jooseppi 6th man similar to harden. a ball dominant 2 guard. slashing and creating on the second unit with a spot up backup PG, and as a spot up shooter with Irving on the floor
Grolgar
2012-06-27 20:29:05
@Amuro I'm confident that it is...
Grolgar
2012-06-27 20:31:36
@cemitten Only if it ends well.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 20:31:47
 @Jooseppi Is he though. He's a better shot blocker then Dwight, He's better at shooting free throws then Dwight, he has jumper range dwight will never have. Serge has improved part of his game every year, and he's due to make 1.5 million next year, and not much more the next as a restricted free agent.    Combine that with his age, and the time that give orlando to rebuild and i would take that over the hope that bynum 1 stays healthy and 2. resigns with a bad team as an unrestricted FA in two years
Tequila or Failure
2012-06-27 20:33:55
"But why make such a major move now, rather than wait until it’s actually necessary?" --If I understand the rules correctly, the only way we could trade James a year from now is either mid-season before the March trade deadline or in July via a sign & trade once the free agency period started in July, after next year's draft. A mid-season trade would make no sense & wouldn't get us someone of Beal's potential & locked in relatively low salary in return. The sign & trade option next July isn't appealing because we'd have to take on comparable salary to Harden's new contract in return, likely meaning a guy or two on expiring deals and 2014 draft picks of unknown position. And then the third option is to let him walk w/nothing in return when someone offers him the max which we I think intelligently won't match. So, this Beal thing seems the smart, proactive thing to do if we know James won't accept 9 or 10 per & the brass don't want to pay luxury tax.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:36:54
 @jdstorm He's a terrible spot-up shooter by the way and a a poor cutter. He shows no signs of being capable of creating shots for anybody but himself, mostly because he doesn't pass to his teammates. He was poor at converting at the rim even against college defenses. While he does an OK job getting to the line, he shoots a dismal 65 percent from there. It makes little to no sense. 
Keith00
2012-06-27 20:37:53
 @Tequila or Failure Keep in mind that the teams most likely to land James next year (assuming we don't retain him) will have to be able to offer him a max contract to begin with. We would trade him specifically to a team far enough under the cap that they don't need to send out contracts to make the deal work.   There are always teams with cap space, and many of them tend to have very high draft picks.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 20:40:20
One problem I see with MKG is although the guy is like a mini harden when it comes to drawing foul (18.2% of all possessions) and almost 50% of his total shots comes at the rim. What we would really miss is Harden's 3pt shooting because MKG is not a great jump shooter at all. 
okcjim
2012-06-27 20:41:26
@Tequila or Failure I still say if someone goes it will be Ibaka.
Bryson
2012-06-27 20:43:08
 @Jooseppi I really, really hope this is sarcasm... 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 20:44:13
One problem I see with MKG is although the guy is like a mini harden when it comes to drawing foul (18.2% of all possessions) and getting shots at the rim (almost 50% of his total shots comes at the rim), he is not a great jump shooter. We would really miss is Harden's 3pt shooting as well as being able to spread the floor.
Watson
2012-06-27 20:44:20
David Kahn taking a look at Brandoy Roy....KAAAHHHN.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-27 20:47:41
 @Daniel Plainview No.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 20:51:53
@bmuelle21 Agreed. I love MKG, and I think he'll be great, but his game needs work. He's definitely a short term, and maybe longterm, downgrade.
Keith00
2012-06-27 20:52:56
This looks a lot like Ricky Rubio to me. We hired a Spanish law firm to really check into his buyout. We sent people over to watch him play and I believe Presti personally did a lot of talking with his club and people. In the end, we realized he wasn't worth the trouble. But, the important part was due diligence. Rubio was obviously a top 3 talent, and has shown enough skill passing and defensively to have been a solid pick (though not in our timeline).   James Harden was the right pick, and probably was the choice all along. But it didn't behoove us to make sure. Beal is the same boat right now. It's not that Harden isn't still the right player to keep, it's that there is no reason NOT to take a look. If somehow Presti turned up that Beal is even better than advertised, that he really could step in immediately and develop into a great player, then a trade is the right thing to do. If not, then it didn't hurt anything to find out and be even more secure that James is right for this team.   The other thing this does is gauge just how valuable the rest of the league thinks James and probably Ibaka really are. If no one in the top 5 is really biting on one of those two for their pick, it gives a pretty good indication that their external value may not be as high as expected (and thus depress their extension number). If everyone in the top 2-5 is ready to toss their pick for either one, it's a good indication that we really will be in dire financial straits, and that their value probably won't diminish next year.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 20:53:43
If were trading for 2, lets protest and demand MKG. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 20:55:16
 @jdstorm You simultaneously are saying that he isn't cents on the dollar for Dwight and then saying he's not going to make much for than $1.5 million as a RFA.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 20:55:58
 @Grolgar  @bmuelle21 I just want to see one of my teams (Thunder, Tigers, Lions)  win a championship so bad and if we keep harden next year there is deff a real possibility of that happening. If we deal him for the #2 pick I don't think you can realistically say we are the favorites anymore when we are having to rely on a rookie to be our 3rd scoring option.    Who knows how long it takes MKG or Beal to get to the level that harden is at now, and they may never. If we have to get rid of Harden or Ibaka get rid of Ibaka. 
Tequila or Failure
2012-06-27 20:58:16
@Keith00 Maybe the picks would be high but they'd be in 2014 or 2015. I'd prefer to get our new potential #3 guy in now to capitalize on this current championship window.
Keith00
2012-06-27 20:59:43
 @Daniel Plainview MKG doesn't fit on our team. He can't play PF, he can't play SF (KD), and he's not going to be better than Thabo at SG in the first couple years. He can't shoot at all. His defense isn't going to be elite right off the bat.   He may be the better player individually down the line, but no matter what pick we get, he has to fit. MKG doesn't fit our offense in the slightest, and I would be highly upset if we traded Harden for a wing defender when we already have that in Thabo.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 20:59:51
I think he coudl turn into a shit down defender, give Lebron fits.  Theres no other sf like him in the draft, maybe in teh league, but theres 3-4 otehr shooting guards in this draft that may surpass Beal in the long run
AllDae
2012-06-27 21:00:45
 @Daniel Plainview I don't know. Beal looks like a surefire All-Star to me. He's been really impressive in his workouts
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 21:01:08
 @okcjim  @Tequila  Ibaka is cheaper, as far as contracts go, than Harden...and we still need to move Perk...so you are talking about Perk and Ibaka being gone...where would that leave us? Collison..and whoever we get with our 28th?
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:01:15
 @Keith00  @Daniel Plainview I would be highly upset if we trade harden for beal who is an over-rated jump shooter...he's not going to come close to being "ray allen" like
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 21:01:25
 @Daniel Plainview I think he probably poops down, too.
justin_mia
2012-06-27 21:01:27
There's nothing in the real reports that say it's Harden that would be traded for Beal.  I just can't see Presti doing that.
AllDae
2012-06-27 21:01:31
 @Daniel Plainview OK take out the surefire part haha
Stringer Bell
2012-06-27 21:01:54
 @Daniel Plainview "shit down defender, give Lebron fits." is just too funny! obviously a typo!
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:02:26
@Keith00 @Daniel Plainview He fits if we trade Ibaka. He's 6'8 235 at 18. He's a physical athletic defender and would be our best shot at guarding Lebron. Against teams with stretch 4's that would let us play Russ, harden, mkg
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:03:42
Kd and perk or Collison at the 5. If we trade harden it doesn't make sense because we need Hardens offense.
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:03:57
 @Jooseppi That contract number is due to his draft position, and in no way reflects his talent, skill or work ethic. What it really means is that due to the small amount of money the team owes him, and his age orlando can afford to wait out some of their terrible contracts rather then make a trade purely to save money
Bryson
2012-06-27 21:05:10
 @okcjim Yeah honestly...MKG fits incredibly well. And from what Chad Ford & Bill Simmons say he has incredible intangibles such as his work ethic and drive...imagine putting him with KD and Russell. Learning lock down D from Thabo and perfecting his scoring touch from KD. I like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:06:12
*Shut
Bryson
2012-06-27 21:06:23
 @okcjim AND he's only 18. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:06:26
If we trade harden tomorrow, especially for beal i'm going to throw up
okcjim
2012-06-27 21:07:01
@justin_mia are there enough balls to go around with Beal, Harden, Kd and Russ?
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:07:35
From Chad Ford: Rate so-so analytically There are some surprises here like two players in our top five, Beal and Barnes. Jeremy Lamb is a bit of a surprise as well, as are Doron Lamb and Tyshawn Taylor. Bradley Beal Harrison Barnes Royce White Tyler Zeller Doron Lamb Tyshawn Taylor Perry Jones Jeremy Lamb
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:07:52
"Bradley Beal"
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:08:00
 @okcjim  @justin_mia IDK but I do know that Beals usage rates were somewhat low at Florida
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 21:08:16
Beal fell into the third tier
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 21:08:30
 @okcjim  @justin_mia *compared to other top prospects 
jdstorm
2012-06-27 21:08:45
 @Daniel Plainview Link to article/comments please
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:43:29
I'm guessing everyones opinions of him as an excellent shooter is based off of his last 10 games of the season
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 22:45:27
 @bmuelle21  What if the league cracks down on flopping? Harden banks too much on getting the calls the way he does...Harden doesn't have a mid-range shot...and we will be paying him for it...
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:45:39
 @thunderatom i just want us to get this sorted out...i really hope we don't trade harden but i know if we do there was no way to keep him and ibaka both
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:46:40
 @dwil4d10  @bmuelle21 what happened when KD couldn't do the rip move?   he won the scoring title...not saying james is KD but i'm sure he can adjust
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:47:21
 @dwil4d10  @bmuelle21 If the league really cracks down on flopping, CP3 will be suspended every other game or destitute in a months time. James still gets his fouls the old fashioned way: driving to the rack. That's unlikely to change much with a crackdown on flopping.
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 22:47:37
 @bmuelle21 One scout on NBA-Draft.net: "A gifted jump-shooter ... Effortless mechanics with a buttery release and a consistent follow-through ... Doesn't need a lot of time to get squared-up to the hoop ... Dangerous in spot-up situations" A different scout on NBA-Draft.net: "His most outstanding trait as a prospect is his jump shot … Beal shows a terrific stroke, very good mechanics and is a huge threat coming off screens or spotting up" From DraftExpress: "Struggling to find his range for stretches, Beal's excellent shooting mechanics and footwork began to pay dividends for him down the stretch, as his catch and shoot efficiency over the last 12 games of the season would have placed him third in this group at 1.372 PPP. Beal's numbers for the whole year do not give much credence to comparisons toRay Allen, but his play late in the year gave teams an eyeful of his prolific spot-up scoring ability. "
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:48:44
 @bmuelle21 Or just his form... also what he did in high school. His playing time and role at Florida is part of the reason... they had him playing SF for part of the year due to injuries and a few other things. 
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:48:46
 @Keith00  @dwil4d10  @bmuelle21 which they better crack down on flopping soon cause CP3 is next in line for NBAPA president
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:48:48
 @Daniel Hawaii  @bmuelle21 Scouts are in love with his mechanics more than his production. You know who else has an effortless shot and who can look unstoppable for 12 games? Ben Gordon.
thunderatom
2012-06-27 22:49:27
 @bmuelle21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQeAvRKHZ1A this is the best video ive seen on this kids ability. hes not bad. but hes not harden. 
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:49:55
 @Keith00  @Daniel Hawaii  @bmuelle21 Ben Gordon is also a lot smaller and came out older. Beal is one of the younger players in this draft... keep that in mind. Good technique and growth aren't bad things.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:50:36
 @OBoymuzik which is why i don't think he's worth the risk...we draft him we are basically hoping that what he did in 12 games is how he turns out and are ignoring what he did the first 2 thirds of the season
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:50:48
 @Daniel Plainview  @MrRaysian How is Beal Harden light... Harden is a scorer based off his ability to drive... Beal is more of a spot up shooter than a driver. It's 2 different concepts.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 22:51:57
 @Keith00  @jdstorm  @TC_42 He might, at some point in the future. The closest thing to an NBA skill right now he has is an OK offensive rebounding rate. He's extremely poor as a post-up player against much smaller and lighter players (36 percent!!!!!), moreso than the prospects he is frequently compared to (Howard, Bynum, Oden, Favors) were at the time they were drafted. Overall he is much more raw than those four were when they drafted. He shoots 29 percent from the line. He has a very poor understanding of his strengths and weaknesses. He believes he has the skill to play out on the perimeter when he does not. He thinks he is a good shooter when he isn't. When it comes to the game, he has many of the same mental qualities Perry Jones has yet is given a free pass on them. He is not a hard worker.  Essentially what you are doing is drafting an 18-year-old athlete in hopes that he can be taught how to play basketball. It's likely he will not be an overall positive contributor during the length of his rookie contract, meaning even in four years you will be extending him based exclusively on potential.  That makes little to zero sense for the Thunder. The Thunder have the opportunity for long term and short term success. There's no reason to risk mortgaging the short term success when you have both locked up simply by not drafting six year projects. 
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:52:05
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik He was playing SF for most of the year at Florida. Playing out of position changes the stats you put up as well as there is a learning curve to playing a new position. Plus going from high school to college has a learning curve just like college to pros.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:52:17
 @Prye05  @Daniel Plainview  @MrRaysian harden was basically a 3pt specialist his first year in the league
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:52:43
 @OBoymuzik  @Daniel Plainview  @MrRaysian But his college play style was COMPLETELY different. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:53:12
 @Prye05  @OBoymuzik I rather have harden and have a legit shot at the championship next year then take beal and hope he can progress to where harden is now.
thunderatom
2012-06-27 22:53:23
 @bmuelle21 i do like his defense tho. 
MrRaysian
2012-06-27 22:53:42
 @dwil4d10 well that's just negative thinking and being far too optimistic on a prospect that never played an NBA game. If anything, there is far more risk in taking Beal or anyothere prospect in a draft than wondering if a sure top 10 SG and a potentially top 5 SG right now at 23 years old is going to down grade from  here onwards 
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:54:47
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik Would you rather win 1 title and then the whole team break apart or possibly multiple titles down the line? Not saying this team as one unit can't stay together but a Beal trade would be a sign that down the line.   Also how do you know he can't do what Harden can do now? He hasn't played a minute in the NBA.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:55:08
 @bmuelle21  @Prye05 agree of course i want harden...but i also don't want to end up like the mavs after we win a title and we can't afford harden OR ibaka
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:55:45
 @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 at least the mavs have a title...i think people are really underestimating how difficult it is to win an NBA title
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:56:36
 @Prye05  @Daniel Hawaii  @bmuelle21 No but the point remains that his production doesn't match his mechanics. SFs in college become SGs in the NBA, so his playing out of position means little to his ultimate skill at a higher level.   Having a silky smooth jumper doesn't make you a great player, especially when you are undersized. Gordon was a 3rd overall pick himself and very highly touted. We are guess with Beal, just as people guessed with Gordon. I'm just saying, if Beal's career ends up like Gordon's (high scoring, streaky 6th man that offers little else), it puts a bit of a damper on the Harden for Beal talks.
Prye05
2012-06-27 22:57:10
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik Even if the Thunder keep Harden there is no guarantee the Thunder win next year... at which point they might not be able to keep him.... the thing to consider is the opportunity cost in all of this. Which works both ways.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:57:26
 @Prye05  @OBoymuzik I think it is highly unlikely beal can do what harden is doing now...and i think its highly unlikely he is going to thrive as the 3rd scoring option is first year in the NBA...BUT...i guess you never know...i'm just saying I rather have the for sure thing now then take the risk
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:58:25
 @bmuelle21  @Prye05 no one is saying beal will come anywhere close to hardens production in his rookie season...but we could pick up a free agent with some scoring punch if we deal harden
Keith00
2012-06-27 22:59:10
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 To address the long term success model, you seem to be forgetting one huge point. IF, and that is a gigantic if, Beal manages to be as good as Harden in a few years, we run into the EXACT SAME PROBLEM with his extension. If we trade Harden, it means we will extend Ibaka.   If we have Russ-KD-Ibaka all signed to big contracts, Beal suddenly being great doesn't help our cap situation. In fact, the only thing it does is delay the problem for about the amount of time it would take for Beal to catch up to Harden.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 22:59:26
 @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 I'm more ok with the beal trade ONLY IF we can pick up someone else to be a solid scoring threat. The fact as making a rookie your third scoring option just scares me, especially in the playoffs
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 22:59:48
 @bmuelle21  @Prye05 if we did the trade i think we would need ibaka to step up his production slightly(not harden numbers) but the same way we trusted James when we traded Jeff Green
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 23:00:02
@bmuelle21 Beal shot 33.9% from behind the arc. Eric Gordon was even worse at Indiana at 33.7% and he's turned out fine. Beal also shot 44.5% from the field to Gordon's 43.3%, out-rebounded Gordon, 6.7 to 3.3, averaged slightly more steals and blocks and had 0.2 less assists.   
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:01:52
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 You rill not find a player in the league with a friendly contract who is able to score as efficiently as Harden from the perimeter within his role. No single FA signing is likely to replace him, short of some astronomical jump. You see KD and Russ sacrifice bits of their efficiency in attempts to make up for it, and that doesn't go well, usually. It could be especially catastrophic for Russ, who benefits the most from Harden's presence on the court.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:02:47
What are realistic numbers we can expect from Beal in is rookie year if we draft him?
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:03:27
 @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 that would require brooks to play him more, which i'm not sure he is capable off lol
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:03:51
 @Jooseppi  @bmuelle21  @Prye05 how much would terry cost?
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:04:01
 @Daniel Hawaii  @bmuelle21 Just to throw this out there, but Gordon's 3pt % has gone down every year in the league. Even if we take away the 9 game sample from this year, he's much more league average than elite.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:04:08
also, would we be having beal come off the bench similar to harden's role or starting?
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:04:34
Fuck the lakers
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:05:17
 @bmuelle21 idk i'm especially worried about if we were to do this trade how much Thabo's minutes would go up.....i think thabo low key kills our ball movement
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:05:53
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 Let's all pretend that "you rill not find a player..." is an acceptable phrase.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:06:03
Keep harden trade Ibaka to Cleaveland for 4?
El Prez
2012-06-27 23:06:12
I just don't see any way we keep James, Serge, and Eric. I do see a way we keep Serge, Eric, and maximize James' current market value. It would be breaking up a team which just made it to the NBA Finals, but it's going to happen eventually regardless. So--I guess the question is how strongly Sam Presti feels about Beal's upside, IQ, and work ethic?  I don't think this is ridiculous consideration. I also don't Rob Pelinka would allow his client to sign a deal for less than four to five million under his current market value.
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:06:26
 @bmuelle21 Off the bench, definitely, and I would expect his rookie year would look a lot like Harden's, but with lower 3 pt shooting marks. That sounds positive, but remember a lot of people were calling Harden a bust his first year, he's taken major steps to get where he is now.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:06:38
I propose these cause one of them is gonna leave for more money
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:06:46
 @Daniel Plainview then pick who Robinson? i think Charlotte will take him if they don't move their pick
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 23:07:02
 @Keith00  He played for the Clippers with no Chris Paul. We saw during the World Championships how capable the kid is of lighting it up, albeit from a shorter 3-point line. Keith, I'm just curious... how do you envision us being able to keep KD, Russ, James and Serge?
dwil4d10
2012-06-27 23:07:53
I want us to get MKG and Draymond Green...we need some people that aren't afraid to get physical..less finesse..more nasty...
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:08:49
 @Daniel Plainview i also think that if harden demands a max deal then we have to trade him, 3 max perimeter players scares me
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:09:01
 @OBoymuzik  @Daniel Plainview I would rather have Robinson than Beal or MKG. He actually fits our team's needs and in trading Ibaka allows us to keep our best players. In all likelihood Robinson is going to be a very strong rebounder and defender. He won't block shots like Ibaka and his range is limited, but he can catch, finish, and get hustle points off the glass.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:09:05
 @OBoymuzik MKG, grab Sullinger at 28.  I see Sullinger as a Collison with a post game, perhaps not the BBIQ though. We need to plan for Collies eventual aging  
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:09:43
 @Daniel Plainview i agree lol i think we all forget that he's not going to be around forever
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:10:07
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21  @Prye05 Probably the full MLE for 2 or 3 years. .540 TS% compared to Harden ,660 on similar usage. Shot 43 percent from the field and every indication is he's declining. He's a stay way.
Daniel Hawaii
2012-06-27 23:10:15
 @bmuelle21 I honestly can't see Beal starting with Thabo still here. The only way is if Scott Brooks is no longer the coach and the new coach wants scoring rather than defense in the starting lineup.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:10:17
 @dwil4d10 yeah Perk has gone a little over the top with his finesse...looks like a ballerina
oregonthunder
2012-06-27 23:11:08
I think that this is an old story that is finally surfacing. I wouldn't doubt that all this happened, but I do doubt that Presti is still strongly considering trading harden. After Harden's exit interview, you can tell he wants to stay, and maybe even take a pay cut. I don't see anything major happening. A move into the early 20's or late teens would be awesome, but I don't see much actually happening. Just my opinion. As a fan, I hope nothing happens and we can make another championship run next year. If thunder do move into top 5, what do you think of Ibaka to Sac (who they could pair with Cousins) and taking MKG. This moves KD to the 4 some more which really worked. Then have Perk talk to Garnett about coming over. That is my only thought, but overall, I say please don't do anything we want a championship next year!!
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:11:17
 @Daniel Hawaii If the owners want to, they can. It's not a matter of able, it's a matter of willing.   That said, I would simply rather trade Ibaka. Beal is not as good as Harden and probably won't be for years if he ever gets there. MKG doesn't strike me as a fit with the rest of our players (specifically minus Harden). If we move one of the two, it makes more sense for it to be Ibaka, who also has a more ready replacement in Thomas Robinson.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:11:33
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21  @Prye05 Probably the full MLE for 2 or 3 years. .540 TS% compared to Harden ,660 on similar usage. Shot 43 percent from the field and every indication is he's declining. He's a stay away.
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:12:40
 @OBoymuzik  @Daniel Plainview Sullinger looks like he's going to be a terrible defender. Not saying pass him up at 28, but it just seems like a weird way to replace Collison.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:12:48
I understand the reasoning around trading harden...and if we can't keep him i guess you almost have to do it...i'm just having a hard time with how with harden on the team we have the legit possibility of winning the championship next year...you take him out of the equation and replace him with a rookie I think your chance go down a ton.   Obviously a championship isn't guaranteed next year. I guess you can say we are sacrificing next years chance for multiple chances in the future if Beal ends up working out. What if it doesn't though, what if Beal never get's to the level of where harden is at now? That's going to really suck lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:13:40
 @oregonthunder Im not sure teh exit interview is a sound place to go for a players ultimate intentions.  I am certain he loves it here and the bond he felt with the team at that moment was monumental.  but now, when weiging what we can offer him and what he might elsewhere is something he will be confronted with and its a different kind of gravity
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:14:52
 @dwil4d10 Draymond is like a COlliosn type player.  Im from Lansing and Ive watched alot of his games and its astounding at how crafty AND productive he is with his build.  Hes one of teh smartest basket ball player sin teh country
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:15:09
Tomorrow is going to be a mixed bag of emotions on here if we trade harden...or anybody lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:15:23
 @bmuelle21 All fair points
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:16:16
 @Keith00  @OBoymuzik I dont want to replace Collison, but hes getting old.  he would not be the player he is today in two years
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:17:46
http://www.kentucky.com/2012/06/27/2240403/nba-draft-notes-kidd-gilchrist.html
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:17:48
 @bmuelle21 eh no disrespect to Cook, Maynor, Thabo, Cole....but if any of them were to get traded so that we move up i won't really care
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:17:58
 @bmuelle21 There are a lot of what IF's... some are also positive... like what if Beal actually can play immediately and do to the money saved the team is able to bring in some FA's and they win multiple titles?
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:18:18
 @OBoymuzik lol true...i guess i was mainly just thinking ibaka 
oregonthunder
2012-06-27 23:18:22
 @Daniel Plainview Yea I hear that. Ha I'm in a major habit of convincing myself thunder can retain both harden and ibaka it's unhealthy
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:18:45
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21 Thabo grew on me this year.  His 3% improved dramatically and he was our best defender - he lived up to his billing finally
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:19:00
http://www.kentucky.com/2012/06/27/2240403/nba-draft-notes-kidd-gilchrist.html
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:19:09
 @Prye05  @bmuelle21 the biggest positive is that if this were to work out we could keep Russ, KD and Serge for their entire careers if we wanted to
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:19:20
 @Daniel Plainview I'm not sure why everyone is infatuated with the idea of a SF... sure someone needs to guard Lebron... but you're talking about a guy that right now is a 2nd unit player. You're trading an all-star to get a guy to play defense... really?
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:20:44
 @Prye05  @Daniel Plainview Why is somebody needed to guard LeBron? I'm not sure why this is given. The Thunder did the best job on him in the playoffs. 
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:21:00
 @Daniel Plainview  @bmuelle21 it's not his shooting that bugs me it's his indecision on offense...half of the times he gets set up for open looks he pump fakes and wastes time off the shot clock...I also think that he's kind of a crutch that our team leans on for defense instead of becoming better defenders themselves
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:21:26
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21 They already probably can... the BIG thing that needs to be addressed is what kind of money the OWNERs are wanting to spend. Obviously the size of contract for Harden and ibaka is a big thing... but if the owner's aren't willing to pay over the tax it is going to limit a lot of things going forward. If they're willing to go X amount over it gives the team that much money to work with.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:21:45
 @Prye05 I would really be surprised if Beal was effective his rookie year...I would hope we could sign an effective scoring veteran chasing a ring next year if we draft Beal so we can still have a legitimate shot this year
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:22:21
 @Prye05  @bmuelle21 Paying Russ, KD, and James max along with serge's 8-10 mill per year and perks 8 mill per year would be pretty much impossible
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:22:46
 @OBoymuzik  @Prye05 stupid perkins and his 8mill per year
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:23:33
MKG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfOpgiX3Xr0
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:23:35
 @Jooseppi  @Daniel Plainview Everyone on this site keeps saying the Thunder need someone to guard Lebron.... but I'm with you it's not necessarily a guarding Lebron issue. Little things here and there would have changed that whole series. Hopefully this team gets better over the summer. However, a dramatic change in playstyle just to stop Lebron seems silly. Getting a 3/4 guy for the 2nd unit that could help in the rotation... makes sense. Trading an all-star or multiple rotation players to fix one spot only to create another... i don't get it.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:24:22
 @Jooseppi  @Prye05 Um, while that may be teh case, he was unstoppable, and he was Finals MVP by a landslide
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:24:27
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21 James and Ibaka can come in at a lot of different places... it's pointless to say what's going to happen in the future.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:26:11
Fake Woj on twitter spreading a fake Dwight trade lol
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:26:45
 @bmuelle21 Why would it be a surprise... he shoots the ball really well. Three things translate really well from college... scoring and rebounding and shot blocking. If he's asked to be a shooter in this offense he could do a great job. How would that be surprising? I guess it also depends on if you are expecting a 20 pt scorer. Expectations vs realities can be two different things. If you are expecting him to be a knock down shooter for this team... i'm not sure why you think he wouldn't be effective.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:27:27
 @Daniel Plainview  @Prye05 He was finals MVP because he won. He was good, but not unstoppable. Held him to 47.2 percent from the field. He was at 50 percent for the playoffs and 53 percent for the regular season. The only thing he did offensively better was make his free throws more consistently.  You can live with LeBron shooting 47 percent, or even the 50 he averaged in the playoffs. You can't live with turning a team that shoots 35 percent from 3 into a team that shoots 42 percent from 3, which we did by doubling off the perimeter (which wasn't needed). LeBron's not replicating the 1.26 ppp the Heat had on 3s just by himself.
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:27:56
 @Daniel Plainview Anybody else notice these highlights aren't that impressive. Finishing a transition opportunity. An offensive rebound and putback over non-NBA players. Converting a few athletic shots within 3 feet of the rim. Playing defense.   I have no doubt MKG is a great kid and will probably be a good, smart player in the league. I still don't think he brings to the table anything the Thunder are lacking.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:28:07
 @oregonthunder Beal said he met with presti at the workouts in Chicago...which were the day after we won the WCF...so not really old at all
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:28:14
 @Daniel Plainview  @Jooseppi If OKC won the title Durant would have been the Finals MVP by a landslide too. They didn't exactly stop Durant. If you want to compare... Durant and Lebron were about equal on the scoring. The difference was the bench production.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:28:37
 @oregonthunder Perfectly Ok, im full of all kinds of irrationalities, especially around draft time. 
greatwhitebuffalo
2012-06-27 23:29:22
The Thunder organization is in a lose-lose situation here... 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:29:28
 @Prye05 He wasn't a great shooter for 2 thirds of the year last year...it only came only the last third of the season.
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:30:29
 @bmuelle21  @Prye05 Actually, scoring does NOT translate all that well from college to pros. Rebound and shotblocking yes. Defense to a lesser degree. Scoring there is almost no correlation. Many of the best college scorers never even play in the NBA.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:30:49
 @Prye05  @Daniel Plainview Durant was much more efficient than LeBron in the series and in the playoffs as a whoie. LeBron has other value outside of scoring, obviously, but the point stands.
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:31:00
 @bmuelle21 He also was playing SF... a big difference between SG.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:31:20
 @Keith00  @Prye05 jimmer was a great scorer in college...why didn't that translate well then?
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:31:38
 @Prye05  @Daniel Plainview Durant was more efficient scoring in the series and the playoffs than LeBron. By significant amounts.
El Prez
2012-06-27 23:32:04
Somebody on here--one of you quasi NBA general manager guru types--please illustrate to me how OKC can afford to sign James Harden to something close to a  4 year/$65 million deal? Show me this math, please. I'd do the deal. Resign Serge and Eric while maximizing James' current market value.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:32:05
 @bmuelle21  @Keith00  @Prye05 LOL cause he is short as hell, not athletic whatsoever and is the worst defender i've ever seen
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:32:44
A @Jooseppi  @Prye05  @Daniel Plainview Also, can we be honest since we are talking about MKG. NO ONE is going to stop Lebron or KD. That's simply how the game works. The best offense will beat the best defense. Even if MKG becomes an elite defender, how much better of a job will he do than Thabo?
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:32:54
 @OBoymuzik  @Keith00  @Prye05 i was just saying that you can't say just because he was a great scoring in college doesn't mean that he will be in the NBA
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:32:54
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21 Depends how you define scoring. If you look at top scorers in the NBA (well the ones that actually went to college) most if not all were major scoring factors in their college teams success. There are also ones who only have one year of college that weren't asked to do a lot but put up good points per possession or quality attempts. There are very few top scorers who didn't score at all in college. So it does matter. Though there are some people who were good scorers that didn't go that is true... but there are lots of busts regardless of the position or their ability. 
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:33:32
 @bmuelle21  @Keith00 Jimmer was a great scorer in college cuz he shot the ball all the time. He didn't get to do that for Sacramento. If you let him shoot 20 times a game I bet he would score still.
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:33:36
 @El Prez That's actually higher than they can sign him to. It's somewhere between $60 and $62 million.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:35:15
so did anyone else see the report that if Charlotte trades the 2 pick whoever gets it has to take Tyrus Thomas with them? that doesn't apply to harden does it? cause if so get the hell out
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:35:15
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @Daniel Plainview The best offense doesn't always beat the best defense. It's the best combination of the two that wins. The Suns for example never really came close to a title... but more teams that have won the title have been defensive oriented but still were able to play offense. 
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:35:16
 @Daniel Plainview I made this comparison until I looked back at Collison's draft profile and they project to be not too much alike. Collison not only had a superior build, he was a far far better athlete and defender. I don't think Sullinger projects to be bad by any means, but I also don't think he has quite the tools to be like Collison.   However, I wouldn't mind a long hard look at trading down to the early second round and getting Bernard James on a non-guaranteed, even if he is already old.   There's a lot of different options that fit us well in this draft, so anything drastic like going up to get Beal or MKG is hogwash as far as I'm concerned. Even way down at 28, we've got 4-6 or so guys projected to go at that pick or lower who could really fill holes and are very likely to outplay their draft stock for us in Jeff Taylor, Draymond Green, John Jenkins, Bernard James, Kevin Jones, and Jae Crowder, as well as a few others who likely could be useful now in the near future. 
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:35:31
 @Daniel Plainview *now or in the near future
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:36:05
 @Keith00 I agree.  I posted it before I watched it.  However, I did watch some of his games, and he reminds me of a more confident, more aggressive Iggy, but with that "it" factor othrs have said he has.
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:37:40
 @Prye05  @bmuelle21 The problem is that there are a far greater number of high scoring college players than high scoring NBA players. Moreover, Beal wasn't not a uniquely elite scorer in college to draw bold conclusions. Scoring and efficiency have one of the lowest carryover rates from college to the NBA, that's all I'm saying.   Also, what is the difference between an SEC SF and an NBA SG? I'll tell you, the SEC SF is smaller and less athletic. The fact that he played SF instead of SG is a bogus issue. He still played on the perimeter, was still asked to do things most NBA SGs do, and was facing non-NBA competition the vast majority of the time. The SEC is not exactly a power conference outside of Kentucky.
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:38:00
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @Daniel Plainview Also Thabo is a different kind of defender than what is needed against Lebron. Thabo uses length... Lebron uses strength. Lebron as the rules are set in the NBA is almost unguardable because you can't check him before he dribbles without getting called for a foul and if he is driving he creates contact which almost automatically draws a foul or he scores by getting to the rim for a high percentage shot. So individually people are pretty screwed unless they force him into jumpers which he's learned not to take as much. But it's also a team sport for a reason the team has to design a scheme and decide to let him get his and try to make the rest of the team beat you or take him away and let the rest of the team have open looks. He obviously showed what happens when he can find open teammates.
El Prez
2012-06-27 23:38:08
 @greatwhitebuffalo Not really when you think about it. Three years ago--who thought James Harden would be this kind of player? Most of you didn't. As a small market team GM--Presti is going to have to be very innovative to keep a championship surrounding cast around KD and Russ. What if Beal's upside dwarfs that of James? I would assume if they do this==a vet wuld be acquired as well for next season. You know...one maybe with the name of Ron Artest or Steven Jackson. Just a thought.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:39:08
 @Jooseppi  @Prye05 I agree, their 3pt shooting was anomalous and it carried on forever and refused to revert to the mean. It was an oddity that helped them win.  However, he grew with more confidence ever game because he was unstoppable and as well as I thought Sef played him, it wasnt enough
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:39:25
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21 Well obviously there are more high scoring college players... there are 7 times as many college teams.
greatwhitebuffalo
2012-06-27 23:39:30
Smart business say you can't... Unless Harden actually takes less money. I'm actually for signing Ibaka to a deal. Like Harden, he's 22 but what most are forgetting is that "bigs" take longer to develop(I believe Ibaka's ceiling is higher) and you can't teach height with freakish jumping ability combined with fast twitch elevation... 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:40:42
 @Keith00  @Jooseppi  @Prye05 I think he will do better, maybe not next year, but not only in isolation situations, I think hell be better at boxing out and help prevent him from scooping up all those rebounds liek he did in these playoffs
thunderatom
2012-06-27 23:40:45
 @El Prez  @greatwhitebuffalo but who wants them? 
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:41:20
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21 Actually it has more to do with him getting in foul trouble from being posted up and so not being on the court than an offensive issue. Although most teams in the SEC run a lot of gimmick defenses and zones which makes an offense a non-standard offense so it does make an issue such as playing against a 1-3-1 zone or a 2-3 zone the SF and SG play in different positions. So it DOES have an effect what position you play.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-27 23:42:02
 @El Prez  @greatwhitebuffalo Artest or Captain Jack would both be interesting... 
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:42:19
 @El Prez  @greatwhitebuffalo I was super hyped over Harden because of his fit more than his ceiling. But for this reason I'm also not quite so high on giving him up for Beal. Even though I think the Wade comparison some made to Beal is pretty much terrible and mostly inaccurate, I do think you have to take into consideration that Russ is very Wade-like in his own right, and I'm not exactly sure two Wade-like players beside each other are quite as good as one Harden and one Wade-like guy in Russ. That said, I don't really like the idea of trading Harden now, although I do have concerns about Pilenka being his agent. I'd rather wait, try negotiations, and then try a mid-season trade for a rook if need be.   But yea, give me Steven Jackson, even though it'll never happen
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:42:32
 @Daniel Plainview I think Iggy is closer to his ceiling than many want to admit. And that's no small feat. But Iggy's greatest skill is that he could be a top PG if necessary. MKG doesn't have that skill yet. He might develop it, but it seems harder than other things to learn. Iggy without being a great passer and ballhandler is still quite good, but not franchise player good. I think MKG's future rests heavily on who picks him. With the right team, he could be the 2nd/3rd best player on a contender. With the wrong team, he could be Thabo Sefolosha or Gerald Wallace (not 2nd pick kind of player).
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:43:05
A @Jooseppi  @Prye05  @Daniel Plainview Also, can we be honest since we are talking about MKG. NO ONE is going to stop Lebron or KD. That's simply how the game works. The best offense will beat the best defense. Even if MKG becomes an elite defender, how much better of a job will he do than Thabo?
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:44:21
 @Daniel Plainview  @Prye05 You are essentially asking Thabo to single-handedly negate the most efficient team offense you can realistically have, shooting 40+ percent as a team on 3s. No defender in the league can do that. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:44:44
If we end up drafting Beal and then sign a legitimate vet for next year then I'm ok with taking the risk on Beal...you get someone like stephen jackson on this team or someone similar with scoring abilities and that takes some of the pressure off Beal to preform highly as the number 3 scorer for a championship contender team.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-27 23:45:01
 @Daniel Plainview Stop.
greatwhitebuffalo
2012-06-27 23:45:12
I wish the draft was after July 1st so the Thunder could see how serious Harden is about taking less money...
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:45:32
 @greatwhitebuffaloThis x1000
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-27 23:45:41
 @bmuelle21 AGREE.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:46:05
 @Keith00 Wow, Sef?  I think your trying to match my hyperbole on the other end.  I admit, Im aiming for the stars with him, but to say hes not a no 2 kind of player is a reach too
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 23:46:33
@greatwhitebuffalo Ibaks'd cieling is higher but just like most bigs, a'lot of times they don't reach it.
koolcrud
2012-06-27 23:47:09
 @ElMexiThunder  @greatwhitebuffalo  Most bigs aren't as good when they're 22 as Serge Ibaka.
thunderatom
2012-06-27 23:47:13
 @JimboSlice  @El Prez  @greatwhitebuffalo i feel like hardens fit is being overlooked in all of this trade talk. presti is way too careful with how he pieces together talent to all the sudden have overlapping players. i get all the financial reasons, but it doesnt make basketball sense, and i dont think the finances are so pressing right now that we need to make  a move. lets see what happens. 
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:47:56
 @bmuelle21 if we trade harden i want Serge signed for 4 years in july and i will become the #1 Serge critic/motivator because he'll be the key to our success next year
Keith00
2012-06-27 23:48:01
 @Prye05  @bmuelle21 If he is having trouble playing against zones in college, I shudder to think how he'll fair against NBA defenders. Also, if he's getting posted up by college SFs, he'll probably get posted up by NBA SGs.   The point of gimmicky defenses is that it allows inferior players to hold their ground against superior talents by taking away one thing they do. The reason those defenses don't tend to work in the NBA is that the talent is so high that any defense that doesn't guard everyone at all times will get shredded by superior passing and scoring talent. Beal being a "great shooter" should have destroyed zones and gimmicky defenses, regardless of position.
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:48:22
 @Daniel Plainview  @Keith00 He's DEFINITELY not a number 2 type player. His offensive ceiling is... gerald wallace, and his defensive ceiling is... well somewhere around gerald wallace. Nets fans were on a rampage for trading the number 6 for Wallace, and we're saying that an at best slightly better with the ball in his hands Gerald Wallace is number 2 worthy?
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:48:57
 @Daniel Plainview  @Keith00 not that he isn't number 2 worthy in THIS draft, but in terms of average impact from a top 3 pick, I think he's on the below average end
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:49:01
 @Keith00  @bmuelle21 Beal didn't get the ball in his hand it wasn't that he struggled. There is a difference.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:49:19
 @OBoymuzik I kind of want to see him involved in the offense more...he has a great shot...any chance he could evolve into a KG type player with his mid-range jumper?
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 23:49:38
@koolcrud @greatwhitebuffalo Ibaka just scratched the top 15of mark as far as PF's go. Stop overrating him. You guys sound like the Maynor lovers.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-27 23:50:04
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik He said KG was one of his favorite players and tried to model his game after him. I don't see why not.
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:50:06
 @Prye05  @Keith00 Beal did have a below average usage rates out of the top guards in the draft
greatwhitebuffalo
2012-06-27 23:50:14
 @thunderatom  @JimboSlice  @El Prez I think the writing is on the wall... Thunder signed Westbrook to max deal... No way you pay two guards that much money...
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:50:15
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik KG at age 35? Maybe, but even old man KG is/ was a great passer. KG any younger? heck no not even close
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:50:49
 @bmuelle21  @Keith00 Billy Donovan even said that Florida's season turned around as they started getting Beal the ball more.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:50:51
Can I start the chant?: NO TO BEAL! NO TO BEAL! NO TO BEAL! DONT DEAL FOR BEAL!
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:51:01
 @JimboSlice  @OBoymuzik i forgot about the KG good passer part. lol
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:51:25
 @bmuelle21 he'll never be KG but if he can improve his confidence i think he can give us about 12-15 ppg....So many times he looks like he's never shot the ball in the first quarter both on midrange shots and free throws...i think that kind of gets him shut out of the offense sometimes when he has such horrid starts
koolcrud
2012-06-27 23:51:41
 @bmuelle21  @JimboSlice  @OBoymuzik Even besides that, KG averaged over 24 ppg one year. Ibaka's never gonna do that.
EatSleepThunder
2012-06-27 23:52:36
Is there anyway we can package perk and some other players to move up and get drummond? I'd much rather have him as the starting center than perk.
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:52:59
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik yeah people seem to heavily undervalue KG these days. He still can do many things on a basketball court. Ibaka just doesn't have the natural tools KG has/ had at any point in his career. You can't make apple pie out of avacado. 
JimboSlice
2012-06-27 23:53:19
 @EatSleepThunder not sure if serious...
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:53:40
sorry about this long posts...but the following is delonte west's twitter begging for Dwill to sign in dallas, and it's awesome   "A Dwill...u need to come to Dallas mane man...we got a chance to win a championship here dog....dirk be the best playa u ever played with.."   "Real talk...I know it's a Lil more mOney over der but u home here...fam support here... Town gon love ya...plus u got a team that can do it"   "And u got d best owner in all sports...nest practice facility...and a coach that UNDERSTANDS...real dude like urself...trust me homie..."   "I wouldn't lie to ya...let's get it.....we can win the weastern conference no problem..u 20+.. Dirk20+...when u need a breather...I gotcha"
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 23:53:45
If we're trading Harden at all i want it to be for a big man draft/already playing. In that draft we get rid of Perk and decide who'll be our C. Sign Ray Allen, Artest or Jackson to be our sixth man and draft/sign a 2guard
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:53:51
 @OBoymuzik I was more thinking about KG's mid-range game...completely forgot about KG's great passing...would be nice to get a pick and pop going with Ibaka...similar to what we did we Nenad but Ibaka is a better shooter
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:53:54
What Free agent shoudl we target?  Mayo? Gerald Wallace? Jason Terry? Ryan ANderson?
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:54:08
http://hoopshype.com/free_agent_rankings.htm
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:54:36
 @Daniel Plainview How are any of those good fits?
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-27 23:54:45
@Daniel Plainview too expensive uand none of those just sign for a year
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:55:00
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik Serge is as good as KG with his midrange but KG's real value is elsewhere.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:55:00
 @bmuelle21 the whole team says that Serge has the best midrange shot on the team...better than KD's but he needs to show it
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:55:36
 @EatSleepThunder Drummond makes Perk look like Ray Allen at the line
thunderatom
2012-06-27 23:55:54
 @OBoymuzik haha thats real. we got the west sewn up but deron to dallas gives me something to think about. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:56:04
 @Daniel Plainview No thanks to all 4.
Grolgar
2012-06-27 23:56:42
If I read one more comment about Ibaka having a higher ceiling than Harden I'm going to rip my hair out! Did you all just start watching the NBA yesterday?!? There is a great chance Ibaka is already close to his ceiling now... Lots of bigs don't turn into Tim Duncan. And Harden is already a top 5 SG! Does anyone remember Dallas game 4, Spurs game 5?!? Ibaka will NEVER have that impact. (walks away breathing hard)
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:57:19
 @Grolgar i think everyone remembers harden NBA FINALS lol
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:57:48
 @Grolgar the reason to deal harden and not ibaka is because it leaves more cap space...its a struggle to find quality rotation players if you have 3 max players on the team
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:57:58
Chris Douglas ROberts? ANthony Randloph? Damion James?
Prye05
2012-06-27 23:58:18
 @Grolgar There is a big difference between having a higher ceiling and reaching a higher level of play... how much is Harden really going to improve... not that he's not already at a high level. On the other hand there are lots of things ibaka can improve on... thus potentially a higher ceiling NOT necessarily a higher level of actual play.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-27 23:58:19
 @Daniel Plainview No.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-27 23:58:26
 @Daniel Plainview oh god please delete this before someone takes it seriously
Jooseppi
2012-06-27 23:58:31
 @bmuelle21  @Grolgar But nobody remembers Ibaka shot 10 percent below his average. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-27 23:59:03
 @Jooseppi  @Grolgar i didn't even notice that until you just pointed that out lol
Grolgar
2012-06-27 23:59:09
@OBoymuzik Yeah. And you're dealing away the formula that made the Spurs great. Deal Harden and we'll regret it. I still think its all crap.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:59:14
 @OBoymuzik  @bmuelle21 I believe KD was 2nd in teh league 16-22 ft.  i head that somewhere on in-game commentary, didnt read it
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-27 23:59:54
Man, were approaching ingame like numbers for the commentary
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 00:00:00
@Jooseppi @bmuelle21 @Grolgear he has a 11/11 game and all of a sudden hes the second coming of Duncan/Hakeem/Mutumbo all in one.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-28 00:00:23
 @Daniel Plainview Big day tomorrow.  Well technically today...
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:00:40
well tomorrow is going to be somewhat off a disappointment if nothing happens with all the hype now lol
thunderatom
2012-06-28 00:00:52
 @Daniel Plainview imnot sure ive seen daily thunder so divided. this is madness. 
Prye05
2012-06-28 00:00:54
So the Raptors could be good next year... Nash is honestly considering signing there since he's Canadian, could get more money, AND they could actually be good next year. With him, DeRozen, Bargnani, whoever they draft at 8, Valenciuos or however you spell his name... plus James Johnson, Amir Johnson, a back-up PG (not sure which they'd keep) and cap space
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:00:57
 @Daniel Plainview it's gonna be a good yall was worried moment when presti makes magic and deals perk and cook for the #2 pick
northernthunder
2012-06-28 00:01:10
 @Grolgar  @OBoymuzik with the new CBA it remains to be seen if the Spurs model is sustainable. So, while I agree that there is a good chance that OKC regrets dealing Harden if they do, we must all admit that because there are new rules everyone is trying to figure out exactly what works when trying to build a team. Everything is a bit different now
Grolgar
2012-06-28 00:01:15
@Prye05 Harden has tons of areas to improve (e.g., midrange game), but even it he's the same WE CAN WIN TILES! What about Ibaka's flaws?!? Awful hands, subpar one-on-one D, inconsistent O, no post game. Good god. He may never improve in most those areas.
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-28 00:01:26
 @OBoymuzik  @Daniel Plainview I would cry.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:01:34
 @Prye05 Just throwing names out there.  Mayo appeals to me if Harden is shipped. Wallace if KDs gonna play more 4 (and his defense)  Anderson would make a great second unit, if Colli plays teh 5. JAson Terry would be a superb bench player
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:01:47
 @Daniel Plainview Camby, Hill, Stevenson, yeah that's pretty much it. 
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:01:53
 @Daniel Plainview  @bmuelle21 i'm just saying thats what they all say in practice reports that Serge has the best midrange shot on the team lol...i've heard brooks say it 100+ times
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:01:57
could we realistically pick up stephen jackson for next year if we ended up trading harden for beal?
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:02:06
 @Daniel Plainview Realistically, Camby is probably in our price range and still one the best rebounders in the league. Kirilenko would be an excellent fit for the team but is likely going to get an offer out of our price range from the Nets. Balkman could be had for the minimum and is a supremely underrated role player.
greatwhitebuffalo
2012-06-28 00:02:07
 @Grolgar Didn't Ibaka go 11-11? No one is saying Ibaka is going to be Duncan. What I am saying is that the Thunder made their westbrook bed and now they have to sleep in it... No way you pay two guards that much money... 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:02:10
 @JimboSlice Absolutely no Stephenson
Grolgar
2012-06-28 00:02:32
Harden I sway better now than Ibaka will ever be. And it won't be close.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 00:02:50
@S4TISF4CTION @OBoymuzik @Daniel Plainview i'de streak!
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:03:06
 @bmuelle21 probably not. I think he'll stay a Spur more than likely
chrishardin10
2012-06-28 00:03:24
I've gotta say I was really excited about this because Beal was from the same high school as me. Rooting for the Thunder and a great player from high school would be awesome. Now if we could just get David Lee too...
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:03:32
 @thunderatom Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, you werent here for teh Jeff Green Afair, or teh wars over starting Harden.  That was a blood bath
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:03:39
 @Prye05 that doesn't sound much better than Phoenix to me really... a bunch of unproven and/ or overrated talent
Grolgar
2012-06-28 00:04:04
@greatwhitebuffalo You pay your best players. Period.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:04:10
 @chrishardin10 the fact that your last name is hardin and you want to trade for beal is the best thing ever
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:04:40
 @Grolgar I feel like theres no wat Ibaka shouldnt be averaging 12+ boards a game.
chrishardin10
2012-06-28 00:05:00
 @OBoymuzik Haha true story...if only he spelled it with an "i" instead of that damn "e". That was the breaking point for me. Trade him!!!
Grolgar
2012-06-28 00:05:16
Beal isonr of here most overrated players in the draft. He's not a good shooter. Ugh.
chrishardin10
2012-06-28 00:05:21
 @OBoymuzik On a serious note that I have no desire to see Harden go, love watching him play and would hate to see our core broken up so soon. 
Grolgar
2012-06-28 00:05:42
*is one of
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:05:50
 @JimboSlice dang...so i guess I can look forward to him going off for 6 threes when we play them next year lol
Prye05
2012-06-28 00:06:26
How does that relate to the Thunder? First it's another team that was actually shopping their pick at 8 (everyone has talked at length about the 2... why not 3-27 now?) Also if they are a playoff team that's another thing OKC has to consider... plus people are calling for a defensive stopper... they have a couple decent ones... plus they have cap space so they could actually take on Perk's contract if people were so inclined to look at that (although Perk and fast break offense don't go hand in hand).
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:06:55
 @greatwhitebuffalo  @Grolgar Didn't Harden have the most efficient season by a guard like... ever? Ibaka could've gone 50 for 50 in that game and it still doesn't stack up.    And why is there an assumption that Harden is a max player?
chrishardin10
2012-06-28 00:08:10
 @Grolgar I think Donovan misused him a lot of the year though. Beal is a better ball handler than anyone talked about. A lot more than just  the spot up shooter they are making him out to be. 
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:08:18
 @JimboSlice  @greatwhitebuffalo  @Grolgar idk...he's deff not a max for us but i think people are saying that other teams will over-pay and offer him max to get him
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:08:37
 @JimboSlice  @greatwhitebuffalo  @Grolgar lots of speculation about his agent demanding a max
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:09:35
 @Grolgar it's not about making Beal match up with James harden....it's about making this team championship contenders for the next 5 years and hopefully longer
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:10:21
 @OBoymuzik  @chrishardin10 ...not
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:10:50
I'm going to be optimistic and say that the reason Beal started the year off so slowly last year because he wasn't getting involved in the offense as much early in the year. I guess his usage rate was fairly low compared to other top guards.   does anybody know how much his usage rates went up between the first part of the season and the last 12 games where he started shooting better?
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:11:53
 @Grolgar Not with his athleticism
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:12:08
 @OBoymuzik  serious question, wouldn't we run into the same problem having to extend beal if he got to harden's level? 
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-28 00:12:54
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik Yeah, but who knows what will happen in 4 years.
greatwhitebuffalo
2012-06-28 00:13:14
I simply think Presti is looking out for his buddy Cho. Generating more interest/demand for Charlotte's 2nd pick. No way the Thunder make this trade THIS year...
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:13:20
 @OBoymuzik Not only is he the ugliest player in the league, hes the dumbest
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:15:05
 @bmuelle21 yeah it's 4 years away and we could very well NOT expect beal to get to that level and just think he fits well
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:15:54
 @Daniel Plainview lol someone on twitter just pointed out that he's an unrestricted free agent...so that makes it even better....i do like him as a player tho
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:16:36
 @greatwhitebuffalo agreed. This is the second number 2 pick glorification coming out of Thunder media in what, 2 weeks? 
Prye05
2012-06-28 00:16:38
 @Grolgar  @Prye05 Your initial argument is that Ibaka doesn't have a higher ceiling. Why can't he have a higher ceiling. Arguably his defense can improve and he's already 2nd in DPOY. If his offense becomes even somewhat average he could be a multiple time all-star and possibly even a H.O.F.er just based off his defense. Not sure how he doesn't have an impact as a player. Not taking anything away from Harden, but he currently has an impact just on offense primarily. Ibaka's defensive potential could be a bigger factor than Harden's offense. So to compare ceilings it isn't unfathomable. The Thunder could also win titles with Ibaka... they play on the same team!!!!
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:17:33
 @OBoymuzik then wouldn't that be a regress then? or are we going to be signing someone else as well since we will have cap relief getting rid of harden?
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:17:33
 @JimboSlice  @greatwhitebuffalo beal leaked all of this himself in an interview
Prye05
2012-06-28 00:18:28
 @JimboSlice Their #5 pick from last year is supposed to b a good player. I agree Bargnani is overrated... but that's more because he's never really had a proper team built around him during his time as Bosh left. Also if Phoenix didn't trade Joe J... that team would have been crazy good.
koolcrud
2012-06-28 00:18:46
 @Daniel Plainview  @Grolgar He's not gonna pull down 12 a game in 26 minutes. Give him 36 and we'll see.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:19:31
 @bmuelle21 a player can fit well and help a team without being a superstar...but it would probably be a combination of Beal+ contributions from unknown free agent or a player on our team stepping up
Prye05
2012-06-28 00:20:02
 @Daniel Plainview The issue is more how much money they are going to demand as well as the role they are going to want. Most of those wouldn't want to be 2nd unit guys or take less money.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:20:34
i guess it doesn't matter who we get cuz brooks will find some way to f it up lol jkjk
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:22:34
 @Prye05 not seeing it. The way Johnson's game developed would never have happened beside Nash because of his extreme ball dominance he was allowed to engage in in ATL. Valucienas put up good numbers in europe this year, but still is very unproven and likely isn't an immediate contributor. Bargnani's a tossup still- talented, but never given a great chance to shine with it so could either be great or disappoint. I just don't see Toronto being all that much better than Phoenix was this year even with Nash.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:25:09
 @JimboSlice  @Prye05 Bargnani is a slow small forward but nobody has had the heart to tell him.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:25:41
A tweet from Hoopshype: Evan Dunlap: Juwan Howard is so old. That's it. That's the joke. Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1z3wwKlo5
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:28:21
The following tweet I read, and loved - obviously since I love MKG - and then I saw teh source: Perhaps teh most inane sportswriter working today   Chris Palmer: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist could end up being the best player in this draft. Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1z3xNEvlp
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:28:33
God NO BEal
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:30:05
 @Daniel Plainview Palmer is an absolute idiot but that's one of the more reasonable things he's said.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:30:44
 @Jooseppi  @Daniel Plainview palmer spent half of the 2012 NBA finals tweeting about the lakers lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:31:44
If teh Below is true, would they trade teh 4 and 24 for harden?   Adrian Wojnarowski: Y! Sources: Cleveland's intrigue with selecting Syracuse's Dion Waiters at No. 4 gathering momentum. http://tinyurl.com/7jbws6n 4 minutes ago Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1z3ySAGiV
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:32:28
 @Daniel Plainview yuck
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:32:32
I mean, if theyre looking for an SG
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:32:40
@OBoymuzik@Daniel Plainview  ‏@ESPNChrisPalmer Respect to the Dream Team. But Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Wade, Howard, CP3, Westbrook, Rondo would run them off the floor.  
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:33:08
 @JimboSlice We could land MKG and package 24 and 28 for high teens, no?
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:33:31
 @Daniel Plainview im saying yuck to us trading Harden for 4/24 as well as yuck to dion waiters at 4
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:34:23
No. I'd hope you wouldn't.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:34:30
just watched the video at the top of the post...who puts a free-throw shot in a highlight video? lol
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:34:30
 @Jooseppi  @OBoymuzik  @ESPNChrisPalmer Run off the lfoor is a bit extreme, all teh commercials about all of tehm gloating and braggin about how there wi;; never be anotehr team like them was nauseating and I think taints the charm of the llegacy
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:34:30
 @Daniel Plainview probably not. in the high teens you've got a lot of teams that don't need multiple rooks anyway, so two picks doesn't bring a lot of interest, and MKG for us isn't even in the same league of value as Harden
jdstorm
2012-06-28 00:35:11
 @Daniel Plainview I have a massive bball crush on Randolph, and still think he could be really really good.    However i want him to find success on another team. he just doesn't fit here. 
JimboSlice
2012-06-28 00:35:51
 @jdstorm  @Daniel Plainview agreed. in the right situation i still think he could be a heckuva player, but we are definitely not that right situation
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:35:52
 @bmuelle21 I know, I wrinkled my brow at that one too
justin_mia
2012-06-28 00:36:09
I really can't believe how eager some of you are to trade Harden for another wing.  Harden is Top 5 at his position.  No matter who you get, you're probably not going to get a better player for the next couple seasons.  Unless you're getting a nice upgrade in the front court it makes absolutely no sense to trade him.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:36:16
 @Daniel Plainview  @OBoymuzik I'm just demonstrating his idiocy. 
jdstorm
2012-06-28 00:36:44
The only BEAL i want the thunder to draft is JESSICA 
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:37:56
 @jdstorm She was really great in.... *checks IMDB* .... Give me a day or so.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 00:38:00
 @justin_mia are you not worried about the team if it has 3 max players? i know you love harden, but i don't think anyone here is slighting Harden or expecting to get hardens production back in a trade.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 00:38:41
 @Daniel Plainview i guess to "show of his shot" but idk 
jdstorm
2012-06-28 00:39:19
 @Jooseppi The Film your looking for doesn't exist. I don't think she's ever been in a good movie.    But she's still FINE
justin_mia
2012-06-28 00:39:25
 @OBoymuzik You trade him for a big, you get an upgrade in the front court.  Trading him for a wing, especially a rookie wing, is just ridiculous.  They haven't even had extension talks yet, so who knows what Harden's contract demands will be.  
jdstorm
2012-06-28 00:41:33
 @Daniel Plainview  I believed a similar tweet/post about brandon Rush in 2008. Then wrote a comment saying he would be the next MJ.    Not saying MKG isn't good but the Hype Machine goes into overdrive at draft time
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:43:15
 @OBoymuzik  I think the opportunity to lock up the trio guarantees you a top 2 or 3 offense over the course of their contracts. All three are still improving. We saw a glimpse of what the offense looks like with Harden in a bigger role. One of the max players is Durant. I think it's worth it. Even if it's not, what Justin says is a much better fit in any case.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:46:11
Man, I never stay up this late.  I dont stay up this late on Christams eve
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:49:29
 @justin_mia I maintain that I am not eager, but if the rumors are true that Presti can get hi for the second overall pick (and teh contongency that Hrden is gonna see a max deal), what is to be done?  What bigs would you consider.  Drummond?
S4TISF4CTION
2012-06-28 00:50:15
While we're at it, let's trade KD for the #1 pick.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:51:15
 @S4TISF4CTION I might trade Westbrook for it
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:52:04
 @S4TISF4CTION I might trade Westbrook for it.  I can see Davis giving KD fits in teh futre,  Luckinly hell be on Charlotte so I relaly dont see us meeting them in th eplayoffs anytime soon
Eggs_Benedict
2012-06-28 00:52:52
 @justin_mia Agree 100%.  I feel like our front court (although solid) needs some help, especially on the offensive end.  I love Harden, and would only actually consider trading any of our guys unless we were getting a solid front court player in return.  But, to get that front court player, would it be easier to trade Harden or Ibaka...or someone else/combination??  And who?  I'm not sure I'd give up Harden for a draft pick big man.  I would want someone with an established game so we know what we're gonna get.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:53:34
 @Jooseppi  @OBoymuzik Ha, I didt see it was  a quote.  He sshould lose his frist amendment rights for teh poppycocks hes spewed
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 00:54:29
 @jdstorm Just last year, he did that player comparison, and put Blake against Kd and his verdict was Blake was a better player
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:54:45
Heading to bed. Please don't trade Westbrook and Durant in your minds for Jameer Nelson and Ryan Anderson. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 00:56:46
Heading to bed. We've had some ridiculous Harden fake trades lately. Please don't do anything silly like swapping Westbrook and Durant for Jameer Nelson and Ryan Anderson while I'm sleeping. 
Arent
2012-06-28 00:57:37
Harden for Beal is freaking stupid.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 01:24:36
 @Arent saying it all day lol
OkcBaby
2012-06-28 01:27:18
Harden trade speculation is for fair weather fans.  Dude has came off the bench 6th man role then started some to help this team.  Thats like Roy Jones trying to make weight.  Not easy
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 01:58:46
 @OkcBaby how is it for fair weather fans when it's a real rumor and could very well happen?
Eggs_Benedict
2012-06-28 02:27:34
 @OBoymuzik I enjoy trade speculation, well...because I enjoy speculation!  Not to mention, Harden trades have been rumored.  But, It allows us all to unleash our inner fantasy basketball mind.  Although, some of us have worse minds than others.     For instance, IF we are going to trade Harden, why not just call up Indy (who wanted OJ Mayo) and say, "let's swap Harden and Cook for Paul George and Tyler Hansbrough."  Meanwhile, OKC also signs Terry in the off season.     Starting line up of Perk/Ibaka/Durant/George/Westbrook and a bench of Cole, Nick (or Hansbrough), Thabo, Terry, and Maynor.  Might not be so bad, right?  And maybe swap picks 26 and 28?  Frees up some money to sign Ibaka, cheap inside scoring/energy in Hansbrough.  And a good rook still on his rookie contract in George.  Maybe it's bad, awful even.  But it is still fun to brainstorm!   Besides, don't take the Harden trade talk so seriously.  NO ONE wants Harden to leave.  I don't.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 02:39:20
@OkcBaby i think your using the def of fair weather fans incorrectly.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 02:42:21
The only trade going on tomorrow is when i trade the bad remote for the good tv remote with my 2 year old niece who loves pressing buttons.
JeremyBrewer
2012-06-28 03:53:40
 @Daniel Plainview Many said that about Westbrook back in the day.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 05:14:01
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8099316/evan-fournier-not-necessarily-surprising-dearth-foreign-prospects-2012-nba-draft
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 05:22:30
"No one was having babies there in 1992 and 1993," says Philo, "and this is a place where there are a lot of players. Well, now it's 2012, and there's this small generation of players who would be 19 or 20 now but were never born." Really interesting to me.
DizzDai
2012-06-28 06:06:47
No news on Brooks right? Makes me happy.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 06:10:29
 @Eggs_Benedict  @OBoymuzik DO we have to take Hansbrough? Also, no thanks to Terry. 
Joe_
2012-06-28 06:22:00
This will never happen. No way. James Harden was a better prospect three years ago, and hes a better product now. No way BB becomes a better player than James. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 06:41:46
 @ElMexiThunder I'd love to tell you it stops, but it doesn't. Eventually they figure out you gave them the dud remote.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 06:46:01
 @OkcBaby Yes, if you you flllowed most of this discussion, I dont belive anyone says they want to trade Harden.  The are merely musings that correspond to teh rumors of a trade for Charlottes pick at 2 and the possibly likihood that Harden may seek a bigger contract elsewhere. 
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 06:48:16
And watching tape, its seems impossible to me that Beal is 6'5".  He looks 6'3.  I dont want him, especially not for Harden
milussss
2012-06-28 07:36:15
Im going to cry if we trade Harden. Seriously...
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 07:36:51
 @milussss Don't worry about buying any tissues. 
duhsweetness
2012-06-28 07:38:59
 @Jooseppi The best part about that whole article is Donnie Nelson talking about how they told Sabonis to go and bang as many women as possible so there would be a whole slew of Sabonis clones walking around at 7'4''.
milussss
2012-06-28 07:41:01
no chance to keep these two guys?
kgbrolic
2012-06-28 08:29:02
What is this worry about?  Harden just won 6th man of the year.  Trading him would be idiotic at best. I think Serge and Harden stay in OKC.  One will take less money to stick around, my bet would be that Harden takes the lesser contract.    This is a dynasty we are building.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:29:19
I think a good trade might be Harden for MKG and then sign Ray Allen to a two year, small contract.  If we traded Harden, then we instantly become more attractive to Ray Allen than Miami. 
SeanzieCrews
2012-06-28 08:30:38
 @JimboSlice  @Prye05 But Toronto plays in the East, and Phoenix the West. So even if they get marginally better they could make the 7/8 seed in that conference.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:30:51
I think that it's a real possibility that Harden or Ibaka won't be on the team tomorrow. 
Keith00
2012-06-28 08:32:05
 @FF_pickups Where does MKG play on this team? What does he bring that we don't already have?
ThunderBelize
2012-06-28 08:33:01
 @FF_pickups I agree... hoping against hope that it isn't so, but i am not going to be shocked if something happens. My preference: Perk, Harden, Cook and maybe a scrub or draft picks for Howard and a combination of Reddick/draft pick(s)
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:33:21
 @Keith00  He's a combo forward who can defend and rebound.  He's big enough and fast enough to guard LeBron.  Our small ball lineup would be RW-Allen-KD-MKG-Ibaka which is better than anything that we had last year.
ThunderBelize
2012-06-28 08:35:27
 @FF_pickups  @Keith00 No rookie is guarding Lebron any more effectively than the guys we already have... and making a trade to best lebron in 2 regular season games and a potential finals match up is insane. Defensive scheme stops Lebron and the heat, not 1 single athlete. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:35:31
 @ThunderBelize  I would like it if we traded Ibaka and got MKG but I might be willing to trade Harden.  Depends on how much Presti likes MKG.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 08:36:24
 @FF_pickups I'd prefer to keep Harden rather than Ibaka. Ibaka has no reliable skill outside of shot blocking. He is very close to having a reliable jumper, but not there yet.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:36:59
 @ThunderBelize   It's not 'to stop LeBron'.  Everyone asks why it helps, and I'm telling you what it does is make us WAY better defensively in our small ball.  That's our best lineup but it can't defend or rebound.  With MKG, it can. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:37:27
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  Yeah, I'd do Ibaka for MKG in a second.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:37:33
 @FF_pickups  @Keith00 He's not a combo forward... he's a SF. 
ThunderBelize
2012-06-28 08:37:56
 @FF_pickups If we are going to use Harden and Ibaka as trade fodder then I think we look at betting our team with a proven big not some draft potential rookie...   I agree Ibaka could fit in that trade instead of harden, or even with both of them. For howard, and the fit that would be on our team, it is worth considering. Likely some sort of sign and trade with all 3 of those players to ensure they stay on past the next year.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 08:38:13
 @kgbrolic I agree, we aren't trading anyone.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:38:38
 @Prye05  He's huge for a SF.  He's not going to play offensively as a PF (KD will) but he can defend a lot of PF's (that way KD won't).
ThunderBelize
2012-06-28 08:39:07
 @FF_pickups  @MisterJohnsonOKC I'm not understanding your love affair with MKG... I haven't followed him much, but OKC and MKG come up almost never in the draft previews I have been reading?
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:39:38
 @ThunderBelize Obviously, if Howard extended, I'd give up just about anything outside of KD to get him.  It's highly unlikely that he extends, though.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:39:57
 @FF_pickups I think you need to take a chill pill.  That trade makes us significantly worse.  
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:41:11
 @justin_mia Because Harden is so efficient, I know.  And he can't defend at all.  He looks passable most nights because most 2 guards in the league stink.  But in the playoffs, he's going to be asked to defend good wings and he just flat can't.  He's not a good enough athlete.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:41:39
 @OBoymuzik  @OkcBaby The only thing we know for sure is that Bradley Beal is stating that OKC told him they want to move up to get him, and that Sam Presti may have observed him some.  Everything after that is idle speculation.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:41:55
 @FF_pickups  @ThunderBelize Every trade to fix one hole is currently just opening up another. Trading Ibaka or Harden for Beal or MKG opens up a whole at their spot in the rotation. The "small changes approach" would focus more along the idea of trading pieces that aren't necessarily used a lot (Cole, Pleiss, Cook, Reggie, Maynor, future draft picks, cash) to move up and improve the rotation slightly.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:42:36
 @Prye05   Not if we sign Ray Allen, which we would instantly become huge favorites to do.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:42:39
 @FF_pickups 6'8" 233 isn't huge...
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:43:33
 @FF_pickups Because Harden was a top three pick and a better prospect than anyone in this draft besides Anthony Davis three years ago, is better than Beal or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist now, and trading him laterally for anyone in this draft straight up is most likely a loss of talent.  You're sipping the pre-draft Kool Aid.  Harden is Top 3 at his position.  MKG or Beal will not be.     He looks passable most nights because most SG's stink?  No, he looks passable because he's setting efficiency records and is a great player.  The hell are you talking about?
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:44:00
 @Prye05 LeBron was 6'8" 240 on draft day.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:44:53
 @FF_pickups  @justin_mia Those "2 guards who stink" also can't guard him most nights either... the whole trading him just so he can defend 1 or 2 players in the league is the same concept of trading for a stretch 4 or someone who can guard Lebron... why would you trade someone playing large minutes just to fix a small problem?
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:45:35
 @FF_pickups Lebron also isn't a PF on 29 out of 30 teams...
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:46:03
 @justin_miaHarden is going to be a great regular season player for his entire career...and a poor playoff player. 
C-Wil
2012-06-28 08:46:16
I have to be honest here, I think this draft stinks. The players aren'y good outside of AD. We might get about 4-5 players that might be long standing, contributing NBA players. Davis is the only gotta watch-see-play guy in this whole draft, he could be an all star if his team was any good. Yet the 2009 draft, which people were calling a horrible draft and everyone sucked outside of Griffin....I knew at the time it was bologna. I could see more than 15-20 players in that draft that would make a difference on their teams. Go down the list of names that year and you'll be amazed, I think it was one of the deepest drafts in recent years. Hell, if Rubio didn't go down, we would have had three straight years of someone from 2009 winning ROY? That doesn't happen.   But I am really unimpressed by what I see here, and I think trading some well established players, like a Harden, to move up in this draft is just dumb. But hey, I'm no GM, I don't get to see these guys work out for me and all, but still these names don't excite me. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:46:21
 @Prye05 Neither is MKG
Keith00
2012-06-28 08:46:38
 @FF_pickups  @Prye05 Why would we suddenly become huge favorites? We are going to be over the cap once Westbrook's extension kicks in, meaning we cannot offer more than another team. Allen is already being courted by Miami (who BEAT us) and Boston (who can offer more money). There is not a scenario other than those teams losing interest wherein we become the favorites for his services.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:46:43
 @FF_pickups Not necessarily... he has to want to play here, which he does tend to like Veteran teams. Just because the Thunder have a role for him doesn't make him any better of a fit than other teams.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 08:46:45
 @FF_pickups  @justin_mia That's not a smart statement to make after he had a rather successful postseason except for the finals and he's only 22.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:47:47
 @Prye05 We would be because he would have a big role on 1 of the 2 favorites.  In Miami, he's not playing much.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:47:49
 @FF_pickups Harden was excellent in the playoffs for three rounds, and even now has a PER of 20 for his career in the post season, what in the world are you smoking?  He's been just as efficient in the post season as the regular season.  Like I said, you are crazy.  He's been very effective in the playoffs, especially considering his age.  
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:48:58
 @C-Wil This draft IS one of the deepest in years. The question for success is always skill set meeting opportunity/role. Take Andre Drummond, Perry Jones, Royce White, etc... they could all be amazing talents in this league if they get put in a situation that helps them develop and succeed. They could also all be out of the league rather quickly if put in the wrong situations.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:49:10
 @justin_mia It's not fantasy basketball.  He can't defend his position in the postseason.  Yes, he can score but he was worse than his opponent in the last three rounds.  That's going to be like that most years because he's a horrible defender.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 08:49:36
 @Prye05  @C-Wil Finally, something you and I both agree with :). Nicley put.
Keith00
2012-06-28 08:49:42
 @FF_pickups  @Prye05 MKG is not as big as Lebron. He's shorter, he's lighter, and he's not as long. He's also an inferior athlete with lower bball IQ. MKG is NOT a PF, and projecting him as one is silly. He would get the Jeff Green treatment on defense, with NBA players either backing him all the way under the basket or just shooting over him.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:49:49
 @FF_pickups Who says he is looking to play a lot? He might honestly just want a simple role. After the playoffs he stated that he wasn't sure if he'll ever be able to play big minutes again due to his ankle.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:50:08
 @FF_pickups Then how is he a swing forward?
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:50:15
 @FF_pickups http://bkref.com/tiny/zNbqe   I guess after his first three seasons Manu should have been traded for a draft pick because there was no way he was going to play well in the playoffs, either.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:50:47
 @Keith00  @Prye05  Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with both of you about your assessment of MKG.  He's going to be a LOT better than Jeff Green.
Keith00
2012-06-28 08:50:55
 @Prye05  @FF_pickups He's not, that's the point.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:51:31
 @FF_pickups Harden is in his third season coming out of a gimmick defense.  He's one of the best offensively in the league, you give players time to get better.  There's nothing about Harden that could suggest he cannot become a good defensive player.  You're the one in fantasy land here.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:52:16
 @justin_mia Are you serious?  All you care about is offense.  Manu has Tim Duncan, one of the most dominating defenders in league history backing him up, Harden doesn't.  So you can't get away with his horrific play on that end, period. 
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 08:52:19
The number 2 pick is not enough for Harden in this draft. Just how it is. Charlotte doesn't have enough assets here to give anything else of value. Thus, probably won't happen. 
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:52:38
 @FF_pickups  @justin_mia Did you see the guys he was guarding in the last 3 rounds? How many 22 yr olds do you know that can keep Kobe, Manu, and D-Wade/Lebron in check? Heck how many people do you know period who can keep them in check because obviously that is someone this team should trade everything for. Just like you see a lot of other people getting better... it is possible that Harden can improve on defense like you want some people to improve on offense.
C-Wil
2012-06-28 08:52:47
 @Prye05 I would not be at all surprised to see the Thunder trade the pick for a future pick and just be done with it. 
RobJohnson3
2012-06-28 08:53:09
With Hennigan the new GM with Orlando, do you think he would do a more reasonable trade for Howard than the one around the trade deadline for Harden and Ibaka. That price is too much, but maybe Harden and Perk? I'm pretty sure Howard would sign long term here.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:53:18
 @justin_mia Yes, there is, he's not a good enough athlete.  He's never defending Kobe, Wade or Manu.  Period, you get better on offense, defense is about being a great athlete, he's just not and never will be.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:53:38
 @FF_pickups  @justin_mia Ibaka just got 2nd in DPOY... how is that not dominate? Also Perkins is considered one of the best post defensive players in the league. Durant, Westbrook, and Thabo aren't exactly just standing there.
Keith00
2012-06-28 08:53:43
 @FF_pickups  @Prye05 Why, though? Because of his motor? Because of his defense NOT at PF? Green came out of college with a ton of skills, they just didn't translate.   MKG is a project. He's not a ready made contributor because he lacks so many NBA caliber skills offensively. Hustle and motor are great, don't get me wrong. But, we're talking about trading a top 4 SG for a player that is years away from being a top 10 anything.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 08:53:44
 @RobJohnson3 I really think he is set on the right market, not the team
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 08:53:55
 @RobJohnson3 Sorry, but Harden + Ibaka is perfectly worth Howard and Howard is a queen that wants to play in a huge market.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:54:00
So what you're saying is if it was not for Tim Duncan, the Spurs might have traded Manu Ginobili for a draft pick in this draft straight up after his first three seasons?  Please note that Ginobili and Harden have virtually identical playoff productivity their first three seasons in the NBA, and Harden is five years younger.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:54:24
 @Prye05   I like Ibaka but he's not in the same universe as Tim Duncan in his prime defensively.  Perkins sucks, too.
Tronchaser
2012-06-28 08:55:08
*no deal!*   We made it to the Finals with a good core group. You tweak, you don't overhaul!
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:55:48
 @FF_pickups Defense is about more than being a great athlete, and Harden isn't even a poor athlete even relative to his peers.  He tests out well in combine, moves his feet well.  Most of Harden's defensive lapses occur because he is lost.  When he is locked in he's not bad.     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63TDVWnZ5K8
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:55:49
 @justin_mia "So what you're saying is if it was not for Tim Duncan, the Spurs might have traded Manu Ginobili for a draft pick in this draft straight up after his first three seasons?  Please note that Ginobili and Harden have virtually identical playoff productivity their first three seasons in the NBA, and Harden is five years younger."   lol, no, I don't know where you got that from.  What I am saying is that this team has to find a way to get better defensively and that trading the sieve is a good place to start.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:56:10
 @FF_pickups  @Keith00 I'm not saying he won't be better than Jeff Green... i'm saying his length and size aren't that great to guard PF's. I have no problems with him guarding SF's and playing SF.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:56:26
 @justin_mia He is pathetic on D. 
RobJohnson3
2012-06-28 08:57:00
I think he just wants to be loved. Plus NY and LA can't afford him, so where can he actually go big market? I totally agree that Harden and Ibaka are equal in trade, I'm just greedy. He is going to walk anyhow, so why not take what you can get, especially from your old pal Presti?
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 08:57:13
 @Prye05  are you serious?
Keith00
2012-06-28 08:57:41
 @FF_pickups  @Prye05 You do realize that James is a very good athlete, right? He tested very well coming out of college and has shown time an again the quickness and leaping ability to get where he wants on the court and get a quality shot.   You are basing his athleticism on perception (which was based on a playstyle, not actual ability). Moreover, Russ has been pathetic on defense more than good, but he sure looked great this postseason (year 4). KD basically didn't even try for 2-3 years himself, but her certainly has the chops for it. You want to trade one of the best offensive players in the league, with all the tools to be a good defender, just because he's not great yet?
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 08:57:44
 @C-Wil  @Prye05 Very true, I don't believe any trade is happening. when was the last time a presti move was leaked before it happened?
justin_mia
2012-06-28 08:58:00
 @FF_pickups His problems on defense are awareness problems.  Durant has the same problems but he's usually defending weaker players and sometimes players on interior, but he gets lost on screens and help just as often.  You can teach this stuff.  You can't teach what Harden does offensively.  The team is absolutely reliant upon him offensively - just about every one of our good offensive lineups have Harden in them.
Prye05
2012-06-28 08:59:08
 @FF_pickups I'm not sure how he's not in the same universe. Any player in the league who is in the defensive player of the year conversation is a good defender... can Ibaka get better? Yes. How many players are 22 and can't get better? 
Prye05
2012-06-28 09:00:47
 @FF_pickups Go look at Boston's transcripts... he honestly said he's not sure how healthy his ankle will be going forward but that he hopes it's healthy enough that it doesn't slow him down.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:01:00
 @Prye05 I like Ibaka but he's not even close to the same player that Duncan is defensively.  That's just fact.  Even at his advanced age, Duncan is a better defender today than Ibaka.  7 years ago, it's a silly conversation.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:01:02
Definitely hope we make a move for either Royce White or Terrence Jones, preferably the latter. And if Presti finds a way to have a pick to grab Festus Ezeli too, I'd lose it from loving this draft so much
Keith00
2012-06-28 09:03:03
 @Prye05  @FF_pickups Why would he want to come back to the organization that sent him away? And how much could we really expect to play a 37 (!) year old Ray Allen? We can't go small all the time, and Allen is a no-show defensively at his age. If the ankle continues to affect his shooting, he's not even a factor on the court.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:03:35
 @justin_mia  He can't defend, you wave your hands all you like but the fact is that he's a revolving door out there.  He's a good player, very very good.  But when you only look at the offense, he appears to be off the chart good and that's where you are blindly fixated.  He's an awful defender and that drops him from an all time great to a max contract player who can't be the best player on a championship team. 
Prye05
2012-06-28 09:03:43
 @FF_pickups Compare 22 yr old Duncan to 22 yr old Ibaka... that's the question. You don't think Duncan improved over time. You also don't think it helped that he played on a great defensive team with David Robinson and others.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:03:48
Denver could be interested in a trade for Maynor plus other for their pick to grab White or Jones. They'd need a backup PG with losing Andre Miller and all. It would suck to see Maynor in another uniform so much every year but I think it would be worth it
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:04:49
We're asking him to be the third best player on a championship team
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:04:58
 @Prye05  I'm not having this conversation.  It's idiotic, sorry.  You should take your homer glasses off and stop drinking the Thunder-aid if you think that Duncan and Ibaka are equal or are ever going to be equal.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:06:20
 @dancassidy35  He doesn't fit what our team needs.  Compare Dennis Rodman to Harden.  I think Harden probably ends up being the better player in his career but if we had Dennis Rodman instead of Harden on this team last year, we win the title and it's not close.
Prye05
2012-06-28 09:06:35
 @FF_pickups It's not being a homer... WHEN it's a LEAGUE award. If he won Defensive Player of the Year... are you still calling him a bad defender?
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:06:54
 @FF_pickups We don't need Harden to be the best player on a championship team.  "He can't defend".  That's horse shit, honestly.  There have been plenty of instances where Harden's played acceptable man defense, even against players like Kobe (see above clip).  Defense can be taught.  Harden has the athletic tools to be a great defensive player.  He's bigger than Bradley Beal, longer, had better 3/4 sprint, and similar agility testing.  There's no athletic difference between those two that would make it more likely that Beal could be a better defender.  And swapping him for MKG is just asinine, our offense would fall off the side of a cliff.  How do you propose the Thunder replace James Harden's offensive productivity in these scenarios?
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:08:00
 @FF_pickups  @dancassidy35 Harden doesn't fit what the team needs?  What does the team need, exactly, in your expert opinion?
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:08:24
 @FF_pickups Ya we also would have won if we had MJ instead of Durant or maybe Olajuwon instead of Westbrook. Stupid argument
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:10:12
 @FF_pickups Note that the Thunder offense scored 102.46 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs with Harden on the bench, which would have been 24th in the NBA during the regular season.
Prye05
2012-06-28 09:11:54
I wonder what the chances are the Henry Sims would be un-drafted and then that the Thunder could get him to go to summer league. Sure he doesn't have the greatest motor, but he actually has good size, good passing, good length, and his Turnover rate was a product of that system that was run at Georgetown.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:13:53
Maybe we trade Ibaka for #8 and draft Harrison Barnes.  What do you think of that?
okcjim
2012-06-28 09:15:24
 @FF_pickups Not enough for Ibaka.  Barnes isn't as dynamic as Beal or MKG.  I don't think he helps us that much.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:15:40
 @FF_pickups Doubt hes there at 8 and while Barnes might have a better career then Ibaka, that leaves a hole in the frontcourt 
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:15:57
 @FF_pickups Are you playing Kevin Durant full time at PF if this is the case?  Going to start Barnes as a rookie and hope he can defend the best wings?  This isn't fantasy basketball.
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:16:14
Is this video above still working for you guys in the US?
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:16:31
 @diddoff Yep
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:16:38
 @dancassidy35 Thanks
Prye05
2012-06-28 09:16:44
 @justin_mia  @FF_pickups If it's just Ibaka for the Pick... there's still the 28 to use on a big lol
Barry Amenema
2012-06-28 09:16:54
 @dancassidy35  @diddoff try clicking the watch on YouTube link
okcjim
2012-06-28 09:17:10
ESPN reporting Charlotte has 5 offers for the #2 pick.  I could see them trading for the #4 and picking up the 24 and then trading the 4 and then drafting MKG, Beal or Robinson with that pick (all of those guys would fill needs for them) or trading out of that pick for somebody proven. 
Prye05
2012-06-28 09:17:16
From Rotoworld...  Baylor F Perry Jones III may have an issue with his meniscus, multiple sources tell ESPN's Chad Ford. Per Ford, team doctors are worried about a "meniscus issue," and that could be one reason why he falls in Thursday night's draft. Of course, there are multiple areas of concern with Jones, and this report isn't going to do anything to help him from sliding.   There's still a chance...
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:17:26
I would look into trading Ibaka for someone like Thomas Robinson if he falls to the 4-5 range.  That's about it.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:18:06
 @Prye05  @justin_mia  @FF_pickups Most of the bigs there are centers. 
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-28 09:20:51
 @diddoff  Yes
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:21:34
 @Barry Amenema  @dancassidy35 I tried, but there's a crazy copyright thing going on here in Germany. I can only watch some videos with a firefox add-on. 
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-28 09:22:54
 @Tronchaser If I wake up tomorrow and find out the Beard is not part of our team . . . Well, that just better not happen.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-28 09:23:02
I see a little bit of DeAndre Jordan and a little bit of Kendrick Perkins in Drummond. Not quite the athlete that Jordan is, but with better post moves than either of them, and just as poor a free throw shooter. Not sure he's worth a top 10 pick, but maybe. Clipps drafted Jordan on size and potential alone, and I think that's what you'll be doing with Drummond.
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:23:12
What if Perry Jones is sill there at 28?
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:23:36
 @diddoff Probably risk it 
Keith00
2012-06-28 09:23:42
 @diddoff We draft him...
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:24:07
Despite knee issues?
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:24:38
 @diddoff It's worth is at 28 assuming White isn't there
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:25:05
 @ThunderChick2010  @Tronchaser We'd better have a star big guy on the the team if that happens.
Keith00
2012-06-28 09:25:29
 @diddoff The talent is too great. He would spend most of the year in Tulsa or on the bench anyway. If he needs time to heal, we can give that too him. At his best, he could replace Ibaka. There is no one else at 28 with even that chance.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 09:29:54
@RobJohnson3 Harden/Ibaka wouldn't be enough for D12 at this point. Understand dwight is a massive game changer if ee created a superstar team with him
areayewhy
2012-06-28 09:33:32
 @Keith00  @diddoff i like perry jones as a 3. he looks like a kd clone to me.
Keith00
2012-06-28 09:34:00
 @ElMexiThunder  @RobJohnson3 Harden/Ibaka is better than any deal the Magic will ever be offered. Even if I accept the premise that D12 better than those two combine, it doesn't change that no one else has more to offer.
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:34:38
Could Tyrus Thomas become a solid contributor in this winning culture and with Perk as "mentor"?
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:35:08
 @diddoff Not with the size of his contract
Keith00
2012-06-28 09:36:56
 @areayewhy  @diddoff A KD clone? Maybe if you take away KD's 3pt shooting, FT shooting, rebounding (yeah, KD killed the boards in college), and work ethic. But other than that...
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:37:04
 @dancassidy35 Its less than what Serge would demand
okcjim
2012-06-28 09:37:15
 @dancassidy35  @diddoff There is a really good chance Thomas gets amnestied.  If we can get him for cheap and we can get his attitude right he would be good.  He's a talented player.
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:37:48
Wojnarowski:  Greek forward Kostas Papanikolaou has appeal to several teams in the back end of the first round – including Miami (27) and Oklahoma City (28), sources say – who aren’t eager to add payroll and want to store a player overseas for another year. Papanikolau, a 6-foot-8 forward, could be gone early in the second round. His contract status with Olympiakos has two years left on it, but a reasonable buyout after next season means he’ll probably be in the NBA for the 2013-14 season. Papanikolau, 21, had a breakout performance in the Euroleague Final Four in Istanbul this spring. His shooting makes him intriguing to teams. The Thunder have a desire to secure some shooting at No. 28, which is partly why they worked out Kentucky’s Doron Lamb this week in Oklahoma City, too.
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:37:58
 @diddoff But I also believe that Serge would earn more of what he would demand then Tyrus
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 09:38:36
@Keith00 @RobJohnson3 Good point but i feel that D12 is worth more but the more time passes by less chance of a great deal theyll get
Keith00
2012-06-28 09:38:47
 @okcjim  @dancassidy35  @diddoff No. We don't make a habit of fixing people's brains. Thomas has a lot of issues and has been in the league for 7 years already. If he hasn't "gotten it" yet, he isn't going to.
okcjim
2012-06-28 09:43:05
 @Keith00  @dancassidy35  @diddoff A lot of players start off their careers as thugs and mature into good players.  Zach Randolph, Rasheed Wallace and Stephen Jackson to name a few.  Only way I think is if he was amnestied.
abizn
2012-06-28 09:43:43
 @Prye05  @FF_pickups he actually isn't a good man defender or a perimeter defender.  He's good at altering shots at the rim.  Though he isn't a bad defender, he definitely is not worthy of DPOY.
okcjim
2012-06-28 09:43:59
 @areayewhy  @Keith00  @diddoff LOL no he's nothing like KD.  He's tall and black.  That's it.
Tronchaser
2012-06-28 09:44:18
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct I watched some video of him..and he seems very, very raw.  Like, I'm still trying to figure out basketball raw.  And he seems kinds dumb.   /shrug.
diddoff
2012-06-28 09:44:54
 @okcjim  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 Stephen Jackson became a good player a month ago. lol
abizn
2012-06-28 09:46:11
 @justin_mia  @FF_pickups The issue is I think that Harden is a passable on ball defender, but he seems pretty lazy when he isn't against the kobes of the game.  Also, if you notice, when he has to guard someone good on one end, he's actually pretty bad on the offensive end.  Even in this playoff series, he really came out against dallas (didn't need to guard anyone) and spurs (who's guarding him if they're guarding westbrook and durant?) and wasn't very good against the heat or the lakers.
Zach99
2012-06-28 09:46:16
When you hear rumors out there about the Thunder, they almost always seem to be smoke and mirrors to conceal the teams real plans.  Remember that Spanish law firm that made everyone think we were going after Ricky Rubio.   Is it possible that maybe this is a play to see that our real target is available a little later for a possible trade?  Maybe we really want Robinson at 4 or 5 or 6 and think we can get there with Ibaka?
neo12
2012-06-28 09:47:43
 @diddoff Definitely worth risk.  But i think we need to trade up to late teens to get him.
neo12
2012-06-28 09:51:27
 @Zach99 I agree about the smoke and mirrors.  But i doubt JH or Ibaka are on the table.  More likely we trade up somewhere in teens if a good prospect falls
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:52:49
 @justin_mia  I don't want KD guarding the PF, I've said that all along.  I want a combo forward who guards the PF and Barnes has enough size and athleticism to do that against the majority of PF's in the league.  There are only a few teams that wouldn't have to match our small lineup (Clippers, Lakers, Grizz, Atl, Twolves, Mavs).  It's about matchups not 'how many points can I score'.  Stats out of context are useless, ducy?
dancassidy35
2012-06-28 09:53:08
Quite frankly, as much as I'd love some kind of a move, nothing big will happen
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 09:56:44
 @justin_mia  I could totally see that.  It could work but wings are less risky.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 09:58:00
 @FF_pickups Harrison Barnes has 8'5.5" standing reach, worse than Jeff Green.  Worse than James Harden.  How int he world do you expect him to guard the 'majority of PF's in the league'?
Zach99
2012-06-28 09:58:02
 @dancassidy35 You are probably right, but I will definately be watching tonight very, very nervously...   I've got a lot of faith in Presti though.  Whatever he does, it will probably be the right thing for the team.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-28 09:58:50
 @Tronchaser All true, which further my comparisons. Really, your description could have been written about any of those 3 guys.
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-28 10:00:24
 @dancassidy35 I heard a rumor that they could be trading Rumble.
Iceberg Slim
2012-06-28 10:02:11
 @ThunderChick2010  Straight up for the Gorilla from PHX. He averages 32% from half court behind the back shots, a definite improvement.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 10:02:37
@ThunderChick2010 @dancassidy35 ............... :(....
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-28 10:03:39
 @ElMexiThunder  @ThunderChick2010  @dancassidy35 It would be for bison-reasons, I'm sure. 
okcjim
2012-06-28 10:05:56
 @diddoff  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 Some take longer than others! No he's been stuck in Golden State and Charlotte for the last 7 or 8 years but he's been productive.  The Spurs thought he enough of his ability to go get him and he obviously came through.
Thunderbuzzy
2012-06-28 10:07:25
I hope no moves are made. I don't want to get rid of Harden. I like our team just the way it is. We lost to Miami for many reasons. Lack of talent was not one of them. If Harden demands more than we can pay him then sure trade him. But he has expressed he wants to stay in OKC. We need to keep him if at all possible.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 10:07:25
Why do people want to trade Harden for Beal or so? We are definitely a worse team next year which puts a championship on hold (don't care what anyone says, expecting a rookie to take over as your third scoring option isn't going to end well) and who knows if Beal ever get's to the level of Harden.   Trading a top 5 SG in the league that knows how to get to the rim and draw fouls as well as being able to shoot the jumper for a unproven rookie who imo isn't going to come close to Harden's talent level is just stupid.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:08:34
 @bmuelle21 Draft hype + various different aspects of overreaction to the finals, not always fact-based. 
Thunderbuzzy
2012-06-28 10:08:57
 @bmuelle21 I agree. While I trust Presti 100% and I'm sure he knows what he is going to do already. I don't want to get rid of Harden. He struggled in the Finals. But we played with the Heat with our "Big 2" imagine if Harden would have been Harden for that series.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 10:08:59
If Presti akes this move for Beal, his repute is tarnished
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:09:35
 @ThunderChick2010  @dancassidy35 I really hope the rumors of Rumble having a negative affect in the promotions team office aren't true. So much potential, would be a waste if he is a knucklehead. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:11:24
 @diddoff I only have four other players on the confirmed workout list (Crowder, Nicholson, O'Quinn and non-draftee Vorontsevich). Is there anybody I'm missing?
jreale05
2012-06-28 10:15:21
I dont think this trade is as stupid as people think. Think about it, we clear a TON of our cap space, pick up a fantastic shooter and have the possibility of adding some realy good players this offseason - Ray Allen, Andre Miller or maybe a solid center. I will trade one great player for 3 good ones. Thats just my honest opinion. I would hate to see Harden go, but is he really a max contract player?
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:17:45
 @okcjim  @diddoff  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 The Jackson trade was primarily a salary dump for the Spurs. A smart salary dump, but a salary dump.
okcjim
2012-06-28 10:21:04
 @Jooseppi  @diddoff  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 They had KD in mind first and foremost when they acquired Jackson it wasn't primariy a salary dump.  It was primarily a move to try to help defend KD.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 10:22:27
 @jreale05 where is everyone getting max contract player from? the "speculation" that his agent is asking for max? we haven't even really started negotiating with him.   its not a stupid decision IF we were to get a ray all or andre miller or IF Beal does transition well to the NBA but that's a lot of IF's. Beal struggled from his transition from high school to college and honestly was pretty average the first two thirds of the year. Say what you want about him having to play out of position but he still struggled shooting. Beal also doesn't have the driving capabilities as Harden does or the decision making that harden does which isn't something thats easy to teach.
Keith00
2012-06-28 10:22:37
 @jreale05 If he's not really a max contract player, he won't get the max. If he IS a max contract player, he will be worth keeping.
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-28 10:23:35
 @Jooseppi  @dancassidy35 I don't know if he's shown the development we've expected.  Also, Rumble-on-stilts is just creepy.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 10:23:44
 @Keith00 lol "if he's not really a max player, he won't get the max"    if this was true the NBA would be a much better place, if he really wants the max someone will give it to him in the open market
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:24:23
You save about $1.2 mil this season, as the No. 2 pick will sign for about $4.6 million. That $1.2 million in savings still has the team about $3 million over the cap, meaning all the signing options this off-season are unchanged in how the team can acquire them. There's nothing preventing the team as it is currently constructed from going after free agents this year.
Keith00
2012-06-28 10:24:31
 @okcjim  @Jooseppi  @diddoff  @dancassidy35 Most of the players named were high end talents who produced on the court even when they were dumb off it. Their image transformation had more to do with being part of a winning team than any actual change in their behavior.   TT isn't that good on the court, and is an idiot. We would be making him look good if we picked him up, not the other way around.
jreale05
2012-06-28 10:27:09
 @bmuelle21 I agree with you. I'm just saying, people are overreacting a bit. Who know's what Presti has in mind, he may be going after another superstar for all we know and is just clearing cap room. We will see what happens. As for Beal, almost every player struggles with that conversion, they are what, like 18? haha. Im sure Harden had his times too. Not saying Beal will be better, just saying we need more scoring depth and a center, Perkins lack of an inside scoring presence really hurts.
ElMexiThunder
2012-06-28 10:28:40
@Jooseppi ^
Keith00
2012-06-28 10:28:57
 @OBoymuzik Except RFA is not an open market. Any team really willing to pay him the max must know he will have the contract matched. So really, a team paying him the max would also have to be willing to trade something of good value in a sign and trade. That's a lot to overpay if James isn't a max player.   Keep in mind that Presti is not every other dumb GM out there. Russ got the max deservedly, and was never going to get the designated player option - deservedly. Presti doesn't overreact, and he doesn't make crippling mistakes.
DXL
2012-06-28 10:30:24
Take Doron Lamb. He's the best perimeter shooter in the draft (48% from 3-point range for his college career). He can handle the ball (low turnover ratio), and is a capable defender. No all-star upside, but is the definition of a useful role player. What's not to like?   No more shots for Dae Cook.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 10:31:19
 @DXL booooooo the last sentence 
Keith00
2012-06-28 10:31:29
 @DXL That makes a lot of good sense. If we are staying at 28, Lamb or Taylor are very solid options as future Cook/Thabo replacements.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:31:29
 @okcjim  @diddoff  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 The Spurs had no issue owning OKC since the team moved. Going back to 2010, Jackson's team has had significantly better success defending Durant with Durant on the bench. That includes the 2010 playoffs. Jackson has been an ineffectual Durant defender. He was not acquired to defend Durant. He was acquired because he doesn't have that nasty $11 million player option Richard Jefferson has.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 10:32:28
 @jreale05 If we were to trade harden for anything I would hope it would be to get a better big man because trading him for a worse wing player straight up is just dumb. Who knows how well he progresses.    I was more trying to say that the whole conversion process is going to really hurt us next year. Expecting a rookie to contribute a ton in the regular season, and especially the post season most of the time isn't going to turn out good. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:33:52
 @okcjim  @diddoff  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 with Jackson on the bench*
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:35:52
 @okcjim  @diddoff  @Keith00  @dancassidy35 During the same time frame, Richard Jefferson's presence on the court has significantly affected Durant's performance in a negative way.
DXL
2012-06-28 10:37:18
 @OBoymuzik Let's admit the plain facts. D Cook just isn't a very good 3-point shooter. Last season he was 35% from 3-point range in the regular season, 33% in the postseason. Those numbers are in line with his career averages.   Good defender, nice guy, but a mediocre long-range shooter. He can't be allowed to take another important shot for the Thunder.
okcjim
2012-06-28 10:37:51
Come on Bolts!  Let's go
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 10:38:00
 @OBoymuzik  @DXL Id Take Doron Lamb if we landed a high second rounder, or John Jenkins
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 10:38:32
 @DXL if he wasn't allowed to take important shots we would have lost in game 7 of the WCF...cause we wouldn't have won game 5
DXL
2012-06-28 10:43:10
 @OBoymuzik One good game is not enough. Every shot in the post season is important. For his career Cook has taken 100 3-point shots in the post season. He's made 33 of those shots. That's mediocre performance on the big stage. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 10:43:23
 @justin_mia  It's just an idea, I'm not sold on it.  But I'm not blind to the fact that our Defense stinks and it's largely due to the fact that Harden can't guard a chair.
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 10:43:49
If we landed teh Two and Cleaveland wanted Beal, Id flip the 2 for the 4 and 24m and eitehr use the 24 and 28 on Eitehr Sullinger or Green but grab a Sg up tehre liek Will BArton, John Jenkins, or move teh 24 and 28 if we could land Terrance Ross
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 10:45:38
 @Daniel Plainview who would you grab at the 4? Robinson? if so that seems like it would be better if we deal Ibaka
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 10:47:16
 @jreale05  Have you noticed that half of the avatar's on here are James Harden?  The other half want to have his baby.  They have an unrealistic obsession with him that borderlines on psychotic.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 10:49:10
spurs are shopping Dejuan blair
Bryson
2012-06-28 10:50:35
If we really want to move this team forward we really do need to look to move up tonight. Maybe only a couple spots. I really like the idea of Perry Jones III and LOVE the idea of Royce White...lets make it happen.
jreale05
2012-06-28 10:50:52
Am I missing something, I dont think Presti ever said anything about trading Harden. Yes it s a possibility, but maybe he is trying to shop Ibaka, Maynor or Reggie and who knows maybe even Perk. Let's not get our panties in a wad over this. Presti knows what he is doing.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 10:51:06
 @FF_pickups  @jreale05 I criticized harden during the finals for disappearing but it is a huge risk trading him basically straight up for another SG that isn't as good as harden a may never be...we were 3 wins away from winning the championship last year...I don't understand the pick if we are just trading straight up for another SG   with that being said if we must trade harden i'd look for a superstar big man since those seem to be harder to find and develop then SG's
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 10:51:08
 @Jooseppi  Unchanged?  lol, yes in your make believe land of free agents wanting 1 year contracts, the landscape is completely unchanged.
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 10:52:23
 @bmuelle21   It's also a huge risk signing him and Ibaka to huge contracts and not being able to sustainably fill out a roster with decent parts.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:52:26
 @FF_pickups The options in how they can acquire them are unchanged. The MLE + minimum contracts....
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 10:53:00
 @jreale05 it would probably take Ibaka+2 1st round picks for us to get to #2
FF_pickups
2012-06-28 10:54:00
 @Jooseppi Yeah, in your make believe land, it changes nothing.  Now let me ask you why we didn't sign Battier last year?  I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with your make believe land.
jreale05
2012-06-28 10:54:15
 @OBoymuzik I agree. But maybe thats good for us. Those picks wont be worth much anyways, and we wont need them. I am hoping this is what Presti is thinking as well.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:55:15
 @FF_pickups The team can offer the MLE + minimum contracts with Harden on the team. With the No. 2 pick on the team and Harden gone, the team can offer the MLE + minimum contracts.....
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 10:55:48
it must just be me but i rather role with harden and know that we have a very legit shot to win the championship next year and then worry about what to do with harden or ibaka at the end of the year then risk trading harden for a rookie who may or may not get back to the level of where harden is at.  @FF_pickups
jreale05
2012-06-28 10:56:05
 @bmuelle21  @FF_pickups Did you read my post? I said its not just harden for beal. Its more than that. Open room for a big name, cap space.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 10:57:02
 @jreale05  @FF_pickups ibaka for beal isn't going to work, then we have 3-4 sg's and a huge hole to fill for our frontcourt?
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 10:57:17
 @FF_pickups I forgot the biannual exception for both of those, by the way, but it;s available under both scenarios.
jreale05
2012-06-28 10:58:57
 @bmuelle21  @FF_pickups If we trade Ibaka, it would probably be for MKG, which would move KD to the 4. That would be awesome.
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 11:01:39
 @FF_pickups How is this make believe? It's how the CBA works..... 
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 11:03:00
 @jreale05  @FF_pickups If we trade Ibaka i could see MKG or Robinson. but i don't see charlotte doing a trade straight up for ibaka
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-28 11:05:42
 @okcjim FIRE ROYCE!
jreale05
2012-06-28 11:07:43
 @bmuelle21  @FF_pickups no probably not, but if we threw in some picks or maybe maynor/reggie who knows. our future picks arent worth much so it would be nice to dump some and get something nice
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 11:09:00
 @jreale05  @FF_pickups i think ibaka and something else works better for charlotte anyways since the did just sign ben gordon
jreale05
2012-06-28 11:10:01
 @bmuelle21  @FF_pickups agreed
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 11:11:03
 @jreale05  @FF_pickups i'm pretty sure they end up drafting robinson anyways if they don't end up trading the pick
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:13:53
Also, who says that OKC wouldn't look for FAs in the off season if we traded harden for beal?
Jooseppi
2012-06-28 11:14:23
 @MisterJohnsonOKC Who says we wouldn't if we didn't?
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 11:14:24
 @MisterJohnsonOKC i think we all agree that we would be much more active in the FA market if we made the trade
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 11:15:19
 @OBoymuzik  @MisterJohnsonOKC we better be or you can expect a recession for this team next year
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:15:42
 @OBoymuzik Very true, however I think this harden stuff is just a smoke screen. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't do jack shit on draft night besides our 28 pick, lol.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:17:01
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik True, we just need a big man that can score. He doesn't even have to be good at scoring, just average. Currently we have 4 big men in rotation that can't score at all. When Nick Collison is your best scoring big there's a problem, lol.
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 11:17:11
 @OBoymuzik  @MisterJohnsonOKC regression*
OBoymuzik
2012-06-28 11:17:25
 @MisterJohnsonOKC i won't be surprised either way...i do hope if we're going to stay at the end of the draft that we move maynor or cook and move up a few spots
justin_mia
2012-06-28 11:17:47
 @FF_pickups There were plenty of lineups including James Harden that performed well offensively - and almost all of our best offensive ones have him in there.  You're using him as a scapegoat for a team defensive issue. 
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:18:48
Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress Derrick Williams has been shopped to different NBA teams dating back to the trade deadline. Asking price way too high according to teams. Lol @ wolves over valuing their scrub lottery pick.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 11:19:05
 @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi Battier was terrible almost all season and playoffs.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:19:24
http://dailythunder.com/2012/06/thursday-bolts-6-28-12/
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:20:19
 @justin_mia  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi OKC has a knack for making horrible / average players look like prime MJ ( Battier, Jackson / Young / Carter, etc.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 11:23:19
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @OBoymuzik What Harden stuff?  Nothing coming from the Thunder or even rumors coming from the Thunder has involved Harden.  All that's been reported is that the Thunder have interest in Bradley Beal, that Bradley Beal claims the Thunder told him they would like to trade up for him, and that Sam Presti scouted Beal personally.  James Harden being dangled is just idle speculation.
justin_mia
2012-06-28 11:25:09
 @FF_pickups Plenty of Harden lineups that performed well defenisvely, I should say.
MisterJohnsonOKC
2012-06-28 11:27:36
 @justin_mia  @OBoymuzik Well either way, I don't believe OKC will be trading harden.
jreale05
2012-06-28 11:28:40
 @justin_mia  @MisterJohnsonOKC  @OBoymuzik exactly what I have been trying to say. 1 expert mentions harden and everyone freaks
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 11:44:50
 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @DraftExpress Ive never liked him, I said hed be a bust.  Im sure hell be servieable some day, never dominant, never consistend, a couble of stat stuffing games here and tehre
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 11:45:55
 @justin_mia  @MisterJohnsonOKC  @OBoymuzik fair points  
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 11:47:00
 @OBoymuzik  @jreale05 But they just drafted Ibaka last year,
Daniel Plainview
2012-06-28 11:51:56
If no moves are made, Im warning up to Sullinger or Draymond if theyre there (probably have to move up for that), or Will Barton.  Im tired of this Eurostash philosophy.
Koka_Da_Bauce
2012-06-28 13:10:35
 @Daniel Plainview More like: EUROTRASH philosophy
bmuelle21
2012-06-28 14:02:46
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8105981/nba-mock-draft-version-10
ChristopherPaulThompson
2012-06-28 14:39:46
 @Koka_Da_Bauce  serge ibaka could be considered a eurostash player